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this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
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Meaning that they don't have to succumb to antiquated rules and social paradigms.
Kudos to them. I am (a very late) GenX, and I always hated that mentality. I work to live, not viceversa.
Yeah, expected bullshit cuz Forbes, but the psychologist actually knows what they're talking about about.
Doesn't outright say it, but the "problems" are all outdated shit boomers insist on keeping around because it's what they're used to.
Like, "face to face communication" not only isn't important now, it hasn't been for a long fucking time.
Even when you need to talk to someone one on one to figure something out. IM gives you a record of what was discussed to refer to
If I've got 20 things going on and someone wants a face to face or even a call, I'm very unlikely to remember the details a day later. IMs or emails, I can go back and get all the discussed info in like 2 minutes.
We're asking these kids to do shit that was outdated before they were born because the people in charge are at best in their late 60s and still are scared of computers.
They're just pissed life passed them by and the skills they have are outdated.
I love the ability to keep a perfect history of my communication, which IM/slack/email gives you, but if you have a complex issue to solve that requires the input of multiple people, face to face conversation can get to the bottom of the issue many times faster than back and forth messing. Not only can you speak quicker than you can type, but you can convey additional information in tone of voice and facial expression.
And I hate to praise AI for anything, but it's not half bad at given you a written summary of what was talked about.
I say all this as someone who really doesn't enjoy talking to people face to face, and would much rather just send messages.
Voice/video calls work just fine in that case. The minor gains of being in physical proximity aren't really necessary for good communication.
I'm not exactly "young" anymore but I can type on a keyboard waaaaay quicker than I can speak.
But the article is specifically talking about "face to face". Getting a couple people to jump on a Teams call to sort something out isn't something impossible for Gen Z.
They just don't like the "face to face" bullshit that comes with working in an office.
I'll take a team meeting online on a call over having to do it in person, everyone show up early, and all the distractions that come with an in person meeting. It just wasted time for "socializing" with people you don't want to socialize with. Co-workers don't need to be friends, and definitely aren't family.
Gen X and Y are the same, it's just Gen Z is the first to be overwhelming raised by those two generations.
X/Y can put up with it because we grew up with people like that.
For Gen Z it's literally like having to put up with their grandparents bullshit, something they only had to tolerate infrequently, and recent graduates just went thru years of distant learning.
So they know all the "face to face" shit is extreneous
Most english conversations are conducted at 110-150 words per minute, unless you're a 1% level typist (or have a speech issue) you can definitely talk quicker than you type.
This is true, but on the other hand, no one can really interrupt you typing, and reading is faster than listening, so depending on the group it may still be more efficient.
Well, this is all very subjective. Idk what you do for a living, but there are massive differences between fact to fact communication and IM/email.
To say it's outdated is just insane and flat wrong.
You should read up on non verbal communication. As an older boomer, I am perfectly happy with working from home and a catch up on zoom/teams/slack with my team 99% of the time, and very much against return to office. But sometimes I do need face to face communication with team members I’m concerned about, or with customers.
Yes..
You need that, because that's what you grew up with.
I'm sure you don't know how to send a carrier pigeon, but at one point that was very important in business and government.
It's not Gen Z's fault that a lot of boomers are unable to retire due to the policies their generation voted for or their own personal irresponsible savings and retirement planning.
The youngest boomers are 60, so any "older boomer" is going to be well past retirement age.
Stop trying to insist every future generation has to compromise with your archaic needs.
You are the one out of place, they are the ones that are literally the future.
I grew up online and there are people I've never met in person whom I can work with no problem. I have never had the need to see someone in person for work myself, but the click isn't there for everyone.
I dislike generational thinking and this argument seems to play on those lines; I have seen some people working better remote and some working better partially in person regardless of their generation or background. Younger people are more fluent in working remotely but not everyone wants that full-time and sometimes it doesn't work out too well either. Often working in the office is the worst so let's make/keep remote the default.
My personal opinion is that we should do everything online which can be online and that people who need to work in person should do their best to cater for working online. It helps with climate and can help work/life balance.
Any form of communication gap is a shared gap. Both sides have to cater to make the conversation work. If OP needs face-to-face then that must be taken into account. If you want that conversation to happen you'd better care for their needs as much as they'll care for yours. OP may have extensive experience in working with people and may have seen this need on their own end and likely on the other end too. Perhaps even only on the other end. On the spectrum of cooperation I'm sure there will be cases where it helps and perhaps even be necessary. I believe it's a small subset of situations.
By all means, try to stay constructive and learn from others. Whatever they have learned in the past likely applies to our new ways in another form. I would like it if we could keep improving remote.
Mate, let me save you some trouble:
When the vast majority talk of a generation or any type of group, they're talking about the majority and not every single one of them.
Mate, I'm not sure you're making a convincing argument for remote cooperation here. When OP said sometimes, that is clearly the majority of cases in your book but I do read that differently.
Be kind and think of the other people in the conversation. If you want remote to work then act in a way that shows it does work.
Either case, best of luck in pushing for remote work! Cheers
Turns out being purely remote has affected his social skills online, too 😂
Face to face communication is important, though. My job is 100% remote, but we have a quarterly meet up that's always way more productive than a zoom call.
Nah. Like most things, “it depends”.
This is it, 100%
Unfortunately many customers in my industry are of the older age set and they aren't glued to their devices or computers so the only way to get them quickly is by phone. That still works for immediately resolution of issues. I prefer email for the CYA aspect but some issues can't wait days or weeks of back and forth. A phone call with that older generation is fast acting.
Again, the issue that they take "days or weeks" for email exchanges...
Modern workers are stuck to laptops, they see an email notification when it comes in.
But phone calls aren't what the article says GenZ isn't good at or even don't like
Comments make more sense if you read the article first mate
I'm speaking to #2 in the article and how some of differences in communication styles in my workplace that caused fiction between millennials and older Gen's especially those in industry not sittings at laptops or into IM or facetime.
They are usually doing sales on the road or building things in their shops. The customer service team gets frustrated they can't get instant answers by email but they won't try other methods of reaching the customer. Phone is what I choose as it is the one thing we all have versus are they using and actually checking, texts, whatsapp, Telegram, signal, FB Messenger, Kik, snap, facetime, zoom, teams, google meet, twitter, Etc.
As old as phone is, it's something that will cut through those other questions. So it's not always generational it can be situational too.
This part?
That explicitly states over and over the issue is "face to face" and not phone calls?
If you're still confused you might want to ask someone else, maybe I'm not explaining this well but I have zero idea how to make it any simpler.
Simpler is not the solution. I can't help your confusion or with being hung up on phones versus face to face versus many other types of communication. Sharing my experiences over differences I've witnessed and navigated is just that, sharing.
The kids are alright.
That has been my philosophy as an older millennial. Life is meant to be lived, not slaved away helping grow someone else's bank account. Older folks really hate being told nah, I'm not going to come in for unpaid work. Sorry for ya. Pay me.
Also around your age. I don’t know what to do without work. I love long hours and being on call. I enjoy being reliable, and needed. That said, I don’t expect anyone under me to do that. I’ll never call them on a weekend. Maybe a text?
I was a pseudo-manager of a small team, and my only problem with the Z’s was his inability to focus on work—at work. Like, I want to take his phone away. I want to block video sites. His work ethic was atrocious. He was, however, a likable guy and since I wasn’t his actual manager, I only complained upwards.
A few months ago my company did a round of layoffs and, to my surprise, I was the one who got the axe in my department. They cut the only person who cared about working?!
So this has put me in a bit of a tailspin. I’m now pretty pissed about putting in any kind of effort. When I look for jobs now, I’m pretty hesitant to go for the jobs I normally would, ones with great responsibility. I feel like this situation has stolen something from me. My desire to work! And as I said… I don’t know what to do without it.
Probably had a lot to do with how much each person got paid.
You’d think for $130,000 USD he’d put in some work. Or is that not enough for a Junior developer?
Damn 130k for a junior? What I meant was the layoffs were probably aimed at getting rid of higher paid employees.
The problem they're ignoring is the employer's rejection of traditional work culture themselves. I'm Gen X and even back then the very first job I got, I was trained by a computer rather than an actual human. It took me quite a while to teach myself a lot of basics about how to behave in the workplace, never having proper hand on guidance from anyone, and things have only gone farther off the rails since. Now with Gen Z work is far more impersonal, on top of having almost no prospects at all for starting/raising a family with their income from it.
Employers really need to look in a mirror when they complain about 'kids these days.' We're already a solid 3 generations deep in abdicating responsibility to actually teach the next generation personally, and those in charge just keep pushing harder on solving their problems with more and more technology.
Unfortunately, people running those companies are draconian figures.
Yeah, but how do you think all those nice things like a house, a car, food, etc come into existence? A fairy? The wish of a child in full moon light? A a djinn? Or just, you know, people having a job and doing work?
I don't get this part of people who reason like this and think it'll work. There are plenty of crappy or dirty tasks to be done, and someone's gotta do them. How do you think your garbage disappears, or how things get cleaned?