519
submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

The Illinois State Supreme Court found a strict assault weapons ban passed after the Highland Park shooting to be constitutional in a ruling issued Friday.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] girlfreddy@mastodon.social 27 points 1 year ago

@djflusso @MicroWave

Coming from a nation with exactly zero right-to-carry I disagree.

I have visited the US before but honestly won't again. I'm just not comfortable walking around with people who have become immune to the violence they perpetuate by carrying guns just about everywhere.

It makes no sense to me to live in that kind of constant fear. Like seriously, I don't know how all you aren't dead because your amygdala and hypothalamus are exploding from the stress.

[-] Khotetsu@lib.lgbt 8 points 1 year ago

"How to tell an American from an Eurpoean: An American can tell a gunshot from a firework by sound alone."

As a pro-gun girl from liberal Massachusetts, I largely agree with you but have a few caveats:

These kinds of laws always bother me due to the nebulous nature of the definition of an "assault weapon" in this country. A quick search will tell you that there is no single definition for an assault weapon from a legal standpoint, but that it generally refers to "semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns that are able to accept detachable magazines and possess one or more other features." This definition includes almost every pistol ever created, as the defining attributes of a pistol that differentiate it from a revolver are that they're semi-automatic and almost always use a detachable magazine, except for some early designs like the Luger which use an internal magazine. Notably, the Colt AR-15 (the one all over the news for mass shootings) is not an assault weapon, and neither are rifles like the FN FAL, which was the French army's rifle for awhile during the Cold War. I have also seen stuff like AK-47 variants that are legally considered pistols here in the US, and even pump-action AR-15s, which would be completely legal under these kinds of bans despite being able to fire rounds almost as quickly as a standard AR-15.

It's even legal to anonymously buy the majority of parts for a gun online here, except for the lower receiver, which is a part that has a unique serial code on it that must be registered. Which brings me to my main issue with these kinds of laws: they always feel like stopgap measures which don't do anything about the actual issues but allow politicians to pat themselves on the back and claim they've solved the problem forever.

It's completely possible to have a country where you can own guns without having the issues we do, but everybody is too wrapped up in this 2nd Amendment spat. Countries like Australia have shown that it's possible. Australia used to have a gun culture identical to the US until they had a school shooting in the 70s. At that point, everybody in the country agreed to never let something like that happen again, tightened their gun laws and had a mass turn in of guns, and they haven't had a school shooting since. There's even a country in northern Europe (I wanna say Sweden?) where everybody has to do like 3 years in the army, and they can keep their service rifle after that time, and yet, they have no issues with mass shootings like we do here.

The belief that everybody in this country has a right to own a gun, whether they can be trusted to be a responsible gun owner or not, is probably the biggest problem we have towards actually solving this issue, and no one state can do something about it. These kinds of bans are always fairly easy to circumvent just by going to the closest state with relaxed gun laws, and they punish responsible gun owners who are going to freak out for suddenly being criminals for owning something that they bought legally. So we end up with these bans that treat a symptom and not the root causes while also pushing gun owners to vote for politicians who want to get rid of any regulation at all on guns.

[-] Torvum@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

You're probably thinking of Switzerland and they can't own personal ammunition.

As for the rest of your point, the second amendment is the hot button because those who want to take away the fundamental right to own arms are basically saying that rights are affordable. That's not how they work. As someone in this thread said, the bill of rights do not grant you these rights, they already existed and the bill is acknowledging them. IE, under no circumstances does the government have any capability or authority to deny or revoke it under any guise. The very concept of the people for the people would be erased otherwise.

If the culture of America legitimately swung overwhelmingly in favor of handing in their arms (never going to happen) cosmopolitanism tells us that is fine and good. If the government decides for you that everyone is in agreement, that is a spit in the face of liberty and a complete fabrication of their ability to revoke rights (which as stated they don't have).

Australia didn't ban guns because of a school shooting in the 70s. They banned guns after a mass shooting known as the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996.

[-] dynamojoe@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Which brings me to my main issue with these kinds of laws: they always feel like stopgap measures

The reason for that is laws themselves. You and I may have different definitions of what an "assault rifle" is but could probably come to some agreement. Perhaps some combination of the caliber, rate of fire, magazine capacity, etc. Finding that form of consensus across the electorate would be impossible. The people who write the laws have to write specific wording which will be immediately and voraciously attached by the well-financed pro-gun lobby. It will also be attacked by ingenious (and I mean that sincerely) hobbyists who will do their best to circumvent the laws. I'm sure there are a few hardcore 2A enthusiasts who hate Trump for banning bump stocks, which serve no purpose other than to make a slow-firing weapon into a fast one... and just happened to be used in a mass killing.

[-] borkcorkedforks@kbin.social -4 points 1 year ago

It's just a different mindset. People carrying don't have to be fearful or stressed out like you assume. They just want to have the ability to defend themselves or loved ones. Police simply cannot protect everyone all the time and violence is a thing that can happen sometimes. Violence certainly doesn't happen all the time but many people prefer to carry and not need it then need it and not have it.

The people who are actually a danger are still going to be dangerous regardless of how unarmed others choose to be.

Maybe you feel like you can depend on your police or your local criminals are less violent.

[-] girlfreddy@mastodon.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

@borkcorkedforks @MicroWave

Cops are as bad here as they are in America, as are criminals and crime -- with the notable exception of gun-related crime and deaths.

The only difference between your nation and mine, in this context, is open-carry is NOT allowed.

[-] OneThere@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

You do realize that open carry doesn't mean you can just walk around with a gun in your hand, right? The gun has to be on a sling or in a holster. Holding it in your hand in any way that looks like you immediately intend to use it is brandishing and results in a charge.

[-] borkcorkedforks@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

Criminals don't care about carry laws as breaking laws is kinda their whole deal.

Normal people carrying isn't a problem unless you assume normal people get murderous the second they have the opportunity.

[-] FireTower@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

You haven't said your country but I'm willing to wager that there's more difference between your country and ours than you're led to believe.

[-] girlfreddy@mastodon.social 6 points 1 year ago

@FireTower

Unfortunately there isn't because we share a very long undefended border with you.

[-] Torvum@lemmy.world -5 points 1 year ago

It's not fear, lmao, it's prevention. Do you wear a seatbelt because you fear dying in a car crash every day you enter it? Or is it preventing the possibility of that hypothetical serious injury?

No licensed CCW owner here is walking around armed like a schizo looking over their shoulder and afraid of every person they meet ready to fire. They simply understand there are humans in this world that would take advantage of you if they could, and if that situation occurs, why handicap yourself.

Government data itself from the DOJ shows you're less likely to be a victim of injury in crime by having a gun compared to simply not doing anything, hell having a personal knife could be more likely to get you killed. The point made is it's not the government's right to decide for us if we want to arm ourselves. The individual is enough to make that decision.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

No licensed CCW owner here is walking around armed like a schizo looking over their shoulder and afraid of every person they meet ready to fire.

That sounds exactly like a lot of Republicans, so are you sure about that?

I mean, do I have to start listing people getting shot because they pulled into the wrong driveway or delivered a package while being black?

[-] Dinodicchellathicc@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago

That sounds exactly like a lot of Republicans, so are you sure about that?

"Believe me guys, I know most Republicans! Swear!"

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Did I say most? I'm pretty sure the thing you quoted didn't use the word most. Again- I can start listing people being shot for pulling into the wrong driveway or existing as a black person if you like...

[-] Dinodicchellathicc@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

No need. I think it's clear we're not going to change eachothers minds. I will ask though about people who shoot recreationally. Do they not deserve to own your standard run of the mill ar15?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

No. "I enjoy this" does not equal "I deserve this."

I can also list all kinds of things some people enjoy which they don't deserve. Like sex with women who don't consent. I could go on...

this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
519 points (96.1% liked)

News

23284 readers
1416 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS