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this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions
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Why is there such an obsession with immigration?
Do you want to pick strawberries? It's back-breaking and sucks.
E: thanks for all the replies. I wrote this while pissed about the results, it was supposed to be rhetorical.
At this point, work on helping immigrant friends and neighbors however you can, whether by helping with immigration paperwork or "other"methodologies.
If you need a scapegoat, you pick one that can't defend itself as easy.
Sure, the unborn work for that too.
I just wonder what is so scary about immigrants to people?
Being different is scary enough for those that lack education (either willingly or due to circumstances out of their control)
This is America, and they aren't white. They don't speak white.
Well they're all lazy criminal welfare queens who are also taking all of our jobs somehow, don't you read the right wing propag- I mean, news?
They’re different, even if they’re very similar. The important part is that they look different, too, because if you talked about all the white immigrants taking the white-collar jobs people would have to actually think beyond just a face-value assessment. Brown is bad is a lot easier than person over there could be anything so I need to talk to them and form even a basic relationship with them to figure out what’s going on and by then I might not be able to hate them so absolutely.
Pretty weird that this tactic still works. It really shows how uneducated the masses are, and they're about to become even less educated.
This is by design.
The obsession is because that's the news friendly way of answering with "racism".
This was what the UK discovered after Brexit
Turns out, if you kick out all the polish nurses and restaurant workers, you suddenly don’t have enough staff in those places. Who would have thought.
Other than that, everything worked out perfectly. Oh, but then there’s also the Northern Ireland border. Well other than those two issues… actually, there are quite a few issues, but that’s besides the point. It’s been smooth sailing ever since, everyone is happy, it’s never been better.
Thinking back to the one debate he had with Harris, Trump blathered nonstop about immigration. He talks about it like a wave of moorish invaders sweeping across the land, pillaging. This is obviously a powerful Image if you can get people to believe it. And in some areas people have been feeling like American culture is giving way to Mexican culture as the population in their home towns shifts, so Trump’s rhetoric taps into something that was already there. And if we’re honest, border policy is a weird zone where many of the laws don’t make intuitive sense. America talks out of both sides of its mouth on the issue, historically. A lot of people are here illegally whom we depend on utterly to staff our economy. So their presence is in some way sanctioned, tolerated, but not fully legitimized in law. When someone comes along and articulates one clear direction on immigration, it sounds like someone is speaking clearly for the first time. Even if that direction is stupid, hateful, xenophobic, and economically unviable.
I hear what you're saying. What boring people to be afraid of novel cultures.
Anyway, fine, close the border and make it so only US citizens can do all the labor nobody wants to do. Watch how much doesn't get done; the economics behind work and such don't change rapidly. I'll bet most small farmers get destroyed with fields full of rotting, previously ready to harvest crops because nobody can offer a citizen enough to do the work, in a way that still yields a profit.
The billionaires with factory farms and prison labor will likely win out again.
And the price of groceries will skyrocket 3x and everyone will say "I can't believe Biden could do this to me"
I mean mush actually telegraphed that, "there will be some economic pain"...
They’re convenient scapegoats that can’t defend themselves. “Look, it’s a witch! Burn it”
Never liked that argument. It's essentially "Why, don't you like immigration, dummy? Don't you know immigrants are easily exploited to do hard labour cheaply?"
I'm not saying it isn't true, especially in the west, but in my eyes, there are much more moral arguments for immigration.
Conservatives don’t care about that sort of morals. They only care about what affects them directly. Maybe that means they can’t find tomatoes or apples one day. Then they’ll blame some Democrat for the problem.
I agree that it's low-hanging... nope. Bailing on that one.
I do think quality farm work is critical for our health as a nation, and I don't mean economically.
Can we automate it? Maybe. Till then, someone's gotta do it, and for those who go into it, there's gotta be a floor on job quality, seemingly basic things like bathroom and water breaks.
Race stuff gets clicks and views
No, I don't think you understand it fully. That's what the legal minorities and children are for. Ask rural folk over 60 if they had a job as a child and you'll got a Lt of answers like "I worked picking tomatoes when I was 10."
The rich get to go to private school, the poor get to sell their children off to robber barons. You would not believe how many parents out there are eager for this too. A good portion of the GOP are abusers that dont really care about their children and if they can force their children to go out and get a job so they can take their paychecks, they will.
That's why they are pro-birth and anti-education. This is why we still dont have year-round schooling because "traditionalists" want to be able to make use of child labor.
If you dont think it is coming, almost every red state has attemptdd to repeal their states child labor laws for agricultural and factory work.
I admittedly can't imagine people wanting such a thing. They really are of a different fabric it seems, hurt people hurting people. I guess all the rest of us can do is support letting people know there's another option and helping them escape that trap if desired.
They don't want to live like us, fostering the mind over breaking down the body. So be it, I guess.
Why? Because the right was harping on it. So the news covers it. And then “people are talking about it.” And in 2024, that means everyone has to have an opinion it. The right has perfected the weaponization of communication. Fascists are good at that, historically.
So why was Harris' answer to adopt a strong anti-immigration stance?
Everything the right was harping on about was a lie, but the Dems response was to amplify those lies and say "We hear you and will crack down on illegal immigration," fully knowing there was nothing to crack down on.
Because, like I said, it suddenly became “the most important issue” and she was courting the “centrist swing voter” that doesn’t exist anymore. And we all saw, republicans voted almost exactly the same way they did in 2020, but a bunch of dems stayed home. She sold out anyone left of Bush Jr. and then surprise pikachu’d when no one fuckin voted for her.
Here comes the Democrats again. Complaining that their slaves are being taken away.
That was Florida in recent history, not the dems. “uhh can you latinos come back and work for us again?? no one is filling these jobs as you leave due to the recent legislative hatefest”
Conservatives don’t realize they have slaves, let alone rely on them. They pound the table about migrants while paying someone employing them to mow their lawn or renovate their house. Press them about it and they always tell you it’s none of their business how the people they contract keep the prices down.
This sounds a bit anecdotal or even hyperbolic (maybe not the Florida bit, I don't know I don't live there so I don't know what's going on there).
Why is it so impossible for this side of the argument to understand that the issue is with illegal migrants taking advantage of the system? You all go so far as to say things like "there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant!"
Yes. Yes there is. By legal definition there is! And as the son of a legal immigrant, someone who has been directly involved with this system, I absolutely do take issue with this country opening the flood gates to allow skirting of the system. As do MOST legal immigrants as was shown by this election!
I was referring to illegal migrants, so your rebuttal is a bit of a straw man. This was a reference to the legislation pushed by DeSantis and the republican legislature of Florida that was targeted at undocumented workers. If you don’t understand the connection between Florida and migrant workers in the context of the past two years, I think it’s fairly safe to say that you aren’t following this issue at a national level beyond a drip feed of Fox News or similar.
The point is that most Americans are too obtuse and/or callous to recognize the role of undocumented workers in their own economy. You were fast to say the dems see them as slaves, but the entire goddamn economy uses them for cheap labor. My mother is as wound up about border crossings and caravans as it gets but still pays someone to have Hispanic men who can’t understand her mowing her lawn. They’re not “her” undocumented workers.
Apparently I can't curse at you & your low energy understanding of the world, last comment removed.
I stand by what I said before, I believe all workers should be paid fairly, have access to things like bathrooms & water, and be able to easily come and go as they need & desire.
Try getting better nutrition, it'll help with your energy problem.
As I mentioned below. I know more about this issue first hand and gone through more than you probably ever will in your life.
Low energy. Son, you would have crumbled if you had to grow up the way I did.
Fuckin' glad I'm not your son, my dad was a real man who actually put the work in to help me become a caring and effective man, not watch me founder and mentally shrivel.
I mean look at your comment. No shame, in spite of the supposed first hand experience. I feel for you, and for this country we both call home. Your crops, or your neighbors crops, may very well rot in the field while ripe, until the factory farm decides nearby decided to pay pennies on the dollar and take your land from you.
All legal, all what we progressives didn't want. You'll understand after 4 years of further hardship in your community. Competition and a free market are good, if they are fair.
Typical. Don't care about the actual struggles of us "brown people". "Just shut up and be my prop! I've got a political statement to make!"
Sorry your slaves are being taken from you.
Missing the point, dumb.
We need food, the jobs were available and I want people doing the work to have rights too. I don't want to pick strawberries. I will gladly pay someone to get some for me, if the price is right.
Are you a "brown person"? I guess I am as well.