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Muslims who voted for Trump upset by his pro-Israel cabinet picks
(www.reuters.com)
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this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2024
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Leopards Ate My Face
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I had someone arguing at me here, with the supreme confidence of the ignorant, that trump and Harris would be the same for Palestineans.
I thought those accounts went dormant after the election. Maybe there's still some OpenAI credit left on the controller?
One of those dumb fucks already responded here.
But Id like to think they're AI instead of just mind numbingly stupid.
They are trying to foment division among trump's opposition, the disinfo machines never stop until there is a civil war or collapse.
I mean yeah he would be/is, at least until Israel's genocide is over. There is literally nothing Trump can do (at least while beholden to the public and Congress) in this war that Biden hasn't already done.
Trump is beholden to the public?
I mean he is to an extent. Everyone is talking like the fascist project in America is finished, but it's not and there's no guarantee they'll be able to complete it. That said it's mostly Congress doing the heavy lifting here; there are enough sane Republicans that Trump wouldn't be able to get away with some of the more outrageous stuff.
I would love to see the list of Republicans in Congress whose districts/states WEREN'T carried by pro-Trump zealots and who WOULDN'T lose their seats if they went against Trump.
Hint: it could fit on an index card, double spaced
I I genuinely wonder what would change? What's worse than denying and backing the genocide with weapons, soldiers and money under Biden? What worse could Trump do?
The current issues will end, Biden was at least making noises to get it to stop, Biden was trying to prevent the regional war Iran has been working on, and there were decent indications there would be recovery funding.
Trump indicated none of that and all signs point to encouraging more atrocity
Trying to stop a genocide is trying to start a regional war ? You guys have an extremely skewed view of the world.
The West Bank, where roughly half of Palestineans live was more or less left alone as one of yhr administrations red lines (also, Iran's oil/nuclear facilities.)
With trump incoming, it seems Israel feels they have a green light to expand in the West Bank.
Israel have been aggressively expanding in the West Bank since October 7, and intensified their campaign at around the same time they started the war with Lebanon. There are no red lines.
What new settlements happened thete in the last year? You are conflating an increase in tensions and conflict with expansion.
Uh.... Here you go.
From the article:
Now, I'm no mathematician but surely you understand that's orders of magnitude fewer than have been displaced in Gaza, right? Please?
Yes, because violence in the West Bank has always been lower-level than the violence in Gaza. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make is.
Always does not mean "since I started paying attention" but regardless...
Anyway, you're so close! Let's tey the socratic method, given that the West Bank has been an Israeli target for years, why do you think the violence has been at such a lower level than Gaza since the rapes and murders of Oct 7th?
And why did that coincidentally change days after the election, with Smoterich now directing "the start of professional work to prepare the necessary infrastructure to apply Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria."
If you're ruling out Biden etc, was it just a wild miracle of timing?
Huh? Are we even talking about the same conflict? This has been the case since 2005 when Israel disengaged from Gaza.
Uh... Because there's no resistance worth mentioning in the West Bank? They don't need to do much for their colonial project in the West Bank, but if settlers tried entering Gaza they'd just be shot.
It didn't change, but that aside he might've felt emboldened to say it out loud, but we still don't know if the rest of the Israeli government will allow that. In case they do anytime soon, the only conclusion would be that there were plans for such an action from before the election.
Look, if you understand the simmering West Bank conflict and slow annexation then it's even sillier to try and argue that trump and Harris mean the same thing for Palestinians, which was the entire point of the original comment.
Under trump, it looks like that project might finally get finished, whereas a Harris Biden administration was at the very least basically keeping the status quo intact.
Ideally, as tik tok has taught many progressives that Palestine exists and is worthy of care, you could see progressives voting (okay, but a man can dream) in the Democratic 2026 primaries and moving towards a 2 state solution. That is in now way realistic under a trump administration and once the annexation is finished, there isn't a going back.
Yeah, almost like it was something he wasn't able to say or pursue during a Biden administration. Of course there were plans but being able to act on them required trump to win.
Which is... not exactly something to be proud of since the only difference between what they're trying to do and the status quo is what things are names. It's not exactly a good thing, but also not the gotcha you think it is.
That's an impressively self centered privileged possible view.
"Sure, a lot of you are going to die but I think it would have happened either way so there's no difference between Harris and trump."
Especially when you factor in the Left's newfound support for Palestine and that there would presumably be support to push for changing the status quo, this somehow manages to be an even dumber take.
That's just nonsense. One is likely the end of the road for Palestineans in the West Bank, the other at least has chances for an alternative.
It's as dumb as arguing that climate change would be the same under either President because you don't think things will change.
Uh... Nobody's going to die because of this particular action. They're trying to annex settlements, which are basically already governed as Israeli territory. This is unrelated to the expansion of settlements, which is part of the status quo Harris wasn't going to change.
The left's newfound support that the Democratic establishment has been completely ignoring? There was no changing the status quo under Harris let's not kid ourselves.
These are literally the same statement. In this case the assumption isn't wrong, because while Harris would likely keep Biden's policies Trump is going to change a lot of things for the worse, but if you assume that things won't change under either administration then climate change would be the same under either president.
This might literally be one of the dumbest things I've ever read.
"Sure, things will be different but then if you assume things won't change then they're the same."
I feel dumber for having interacted with you, I'm done.
I mean you're the one who said "this is as dumb as saying things won't change because I think won't change".
Whoever told you that was lying, they've been bombing and expanding settlements in the west bank at an unprecedented rate since Oct 7th. They even bombed Bethlehem on Christmas.
https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+bombs+west+bank
You uhhh, might want to read some of the articles that pop up under that search:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/11/far-right-israeli-minister-orders-preparations-for-west-bank-annexation
Though yes, Israel has done some bombing in West Bank I don't think anyone who has seriously followed the conflict would say that the actions in the West Bank have been in any way comparable to the scope and devastation in Gaza. (Admittedly, unsure what Tik Tok is saying.)
Here, lets search for Israel ministers saying that shit before the election:
https://www.google.com/search?q=israel+west+bank+annexation&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A2023%2Ccd_max%3A11%2F04%2F2024&tbm=
The Biden administration has not placed, nor will they place any limitations on Israel.
Are you reading any of these and actually not noticing the difference between what's being said before and after the election?
They were saying they were going to annex the west bank before the election, they are saying they are going to annex the west bank now. There is no difference.
If you honestly don't understand the difference between saying "Netenyahu must order an annexation" or "our legislators will need to pursue this" and "“I have directed the start of professional work to prepare the necessary infrastructure to apply Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria" well, that's on you kid.
»» They even bombed Bethlehem on Christmas.
WOW! While I am not surprised, I cannot believe that anyone calling themselves a Christian can still throw their support behind that wretched state.
When I mentioned that to one of my republican family, they simply refused to believe it and blamed Hamas.