98
Beware of Tankies — a warning for all feds and unbewitting assets
(antidotezine.com)
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip
Gonna break down a few of these.
Feds in a boardroom have discussed what kills orgs and determined the number one thing that kills orgs is retention, or lack of it. Membership falling below retention rate results in a shrinking org, which is a dying org as far as the feds are concerned.
They are basically singling out PSL and FRSO here in the first part. But the second part is conflating those two groups with the tactics of RCA, formerly IMT, formerly Militant. They do show up to stuff, put up their branding and make it look like they're supposed to be there as a means of piggybacking of other people's organising. "Hijacking open mics" is funny af though, an open mic is.... Open? It's not hijacking is it. And a chant? It's a fucking chant anyone can do it.
Liberals do this? Pussyhat Project? Half the liberal lgbt groups? They're front groups created by liberals.
Nope. There's no deception whatsoever in any vanguard group. I have literally not seen an ML org that doesn't make you read Stalin. Bourgeoise police are not the same as proletarian police. Making this about Cuba in particular isn't going to win anyone over, this "Zine" would've done better to leave that part out because the point will be instantly dismissed by every Cuba supporter. BUT, this isn't actually designed to deradicalise anyone who gets into these orgs (more on that).
The revolutionary party is organised like a military hierarchy because it is fighting a class WAR and militaries are designed with that structure for a reason, they are the most resilient and effective organisational style that humans have come up with for war fighting.
Almost all political parties are centralised. Given my experience in liberal parties like UK Labour I would say they are LESS democratic and MORE centralised than ML orgs. Starmer practically annihilated any democracy that existed within that party, all of which was mostly created by Corbyn.
I've always argued against doing this in my orgs. Maybe someone with a good media skillset could do a NEW project that is under the org's name in addition to their existing project (such as a radio or youtube or whatever) but orgs that take control of existing projects of members don't realise that they're annihilating the motivation of the person running that project. Projects live and die by motivation of the key people running them and it's very important that orgs get some awareness of that and allow members to simply have their projects and their recognition for them sometimes. If you give them that, they often become very loyal and are more willing to run the project in conjunction with the org.
Nah man this is what feds do to break orgs and waste time. Specifically they want more than 2-3 people making decisions on every single project because it slows everything to a fucking crawl. This is something orgs should largely avoid apart from major decisions.
How dare orgs have work to do!?
Incidentally I've actually never met anyone that regretted the social relations they get from organising. Not even people that eventually left them. Maybe the drama and things but the actual social relations? No.
This is an attempt to make vanguard orgs sound similar to what people have seen of their racist conspiracy uncle who the whole family now doesn't talk to. To conflate the left with the far-right. It's not the same. People don't feel sad and lonely and isolated socially from the rest of the world in leftist groups.
yes hello, this is the ideological figurehead
There is no Epstein within the vanguard. Shut the fuck up, liberals have absolutely no leg to stand on in the face of the overwhelming evidence against them for pedophilia and sexual violence and literal presidential coverups. Patriarchal violence IS everywhere and the only reason this attack is used is because the left is BETTER about it which makes people more worried when hearing accusations. If we could compare communist orgs with liberal and fascist orgs on this issue I am 100% certain that communist orgs come out on top as having the least of it, the least covered up, and the most harshly dealt with when uncovered.
All large orgs will deal with it. And the larger they get the more they will.
This is just repeating some of the above stuff I mentioned about motivation. It's a careful balance and orgs should do it better. Incidentally, which is it? Are vanguards taking all credit or are they hiding behidn front orgs to hide their involvement?
Stop calling major issues "PR Stunts". You are calling the Palestine protests against a genocide a PR stunt in the same breath as pretending you care about "vulnerable people". The person that wrote this is a snake speaking double with a forked tongue.
The people that care THE MOST are in these orgs.
[cont in reply]
[cont]
This one is just a mess. Self-crit in order to understand why something is flawed is not a bad thing. Conflating it with a bunch of unrelated stuff is silly, a "struggle session" is just a debate. People exchange ideas and change their views. Not sure what "obedience" even has to do with this other than the feds trying to suggest "if you ever think critically about the world and change your views instead of being an ASSHOLE then you're just being a bootlicker maaaaaan, you're not an independent thinker maaaaaan"... This is fashy shit.
Nobody gives a fuck what this person thinks is authoritarian or not because they included Cuba and undermined their entire argument.
Some of the shit ones yeah. Not the ones that I think this person is scared of the most.
There is nothing that makes you stand out as OPPOSED to the left more to me than making the argument that the left is better off divided.
Literally every large liberal org is structured with a national executive committee or variant of such that functionally steers local orgs. If the local doesn't want to do what the national wants then their funding can be cut off, which in most cases would mean death of the group, that funding will go to whoever is willing to do it. I really don't see the difference, ML orgs are just more disciplined.
Going back to my earlier point: "BUT, this isn't actually designed to deradicalise anyone who gets into these orgs (more on that)."
This isn't really for people joining ML orgs, this is for people who are already anti-ML. This is written the same way the google docs and wikis are written. The "fact sheets" of talking points.
The purpose of this is to spread it as "educational content", to arm people online with talking points. The goal is to create thousands of people with this information in their heads so that everywhere an org name comes up (PSL for example) immediately gets dozens of comments dropping these talking points. This is how they crowdsource narratives in social media. Nobody joining a vanguard party is going to read this and change their mind. But the online discourse about vanguard parties? Well that's what this exists to do. They aim to educate everyone on the internet who is currently anti-tankie into being able to drop these mountains of talking points.
Shit like this will spread. Anticommunist discourse will change. Watch it happen.
If I were going to put my money on a new scareword for the future, tankie will fall away as its now being deemed less useful because of how polluted its use is, anticommunists will instead be pushed to switch to "vanguard".
actually correct btw, if Satan invaded the USA I would join sides with him because the USA is the greater satan. That's Lesser Evilism, I hear liberals like this writer are into that.
wish i could find that youtube clip, i think it was in farsi? anyone with a link to share would be greatly appreciated
i think it's memri tv but that barely narrows it down
It's funny how these people fellate themselves about being nuanced while simultaneusly being mad about people being nuanced about [designated enemy of the state]
Fellas, is it revisionist to view the world through the lens of social and political relations?
minorities, famous for not being at the front of communist movements
When describing actually existing socialism to reactionaries, it's terrifyingly foreign and brown. When describing that same AES to left infantilists, it magically transmutes into being chauvinistic and white.
There was a small workers group in my area that had existed for years and hadn't really done anything until myself and my partner joined and got regular meetings going and set up a plan to do some public facing work. Suddenly one of the prominent members pulled out and shared a post detailing these exact points on Instagram the next day and the group quickly fell apart shortly after. My partner and I were the only two in the group that would even identify ourselves as Marxists and while I like PSL and Workers World neither of us are members of it or any other "vanguardist" organization.
Incredibly sus behaviour.
I know it was a small group and I keep saying this and sound like a stuck record but in the UK we have court submitted evidence showing that orgs have been infiltrated by the government when they're just a 5 person marxist reading group for Capital. They can and do infiltrate very very small groups early.
sometimes i womder where you get the energy to effort post comrade
i hope i can have a bit of your strength
This is spite. And the fact that these things are definitely gonna come up thousands of times in the future and we should all coalesce around answers to them. The counter to this kind of "educate all the anticommunists" shit is educating the communists on counter-narrative.
It's like when Xinjiang played out in realtime with the narrative ever changing and huge google docs of disinformation and copy-paste lines were being dumped out for infowarfighters to use. The most effective thing MLs did in countering that was their own massive docs debunking it and mass educating and giving access to other MLs to those docs to quickly debunk and spread counter information.
This shit will spread and I just see some value in writing my thoughts down as I read it. I might copy paste some of them in future, then adapt em, then further evolve them. I often re-use and re-write myself over and over again over time because you get into the same stuff over and over again.
(It feels like) Communists have to know the entire history of the universe, the sciences, etc. and be able to recite it all at a moments notice.
Yes
The issue is that there's a lot more anticommunists than there are communists. And the feds make sure that all the anticommunists are armed with lists upon lists of this stuff. This forces communists to correct this information. It slows us down, but it does not stop us and what we have on our side is that the numbers of reds are growing over time. A marxist political education can't be unlearned.
We should, actually, to be able to successfully apply historical materialism to practice. Owning libs is just a pleasant side effect.
having a handle on relevant things being discussed in popular culture is useful for organizing
I've started just linking people past dunks, when they say the same stuff. Saves effort and it feels nice. I add them to a chain, and also give them a direct link. The chain is meant to shame them.
I've done this before too but with big threads about the topic. Anything highly upvoted with lots of comments has a social reinforcing effect that makes people more willing to listen.
one of their complaints literally being that we're comically evil and actually just fake is fucking hilarious
whoops there goes my communism and my transness since the libs in america can't comprehend someone to the left of them
Literally just the political version of an insecure person seething about that FAKE FUCK who everyone likes for some reason (a kinder, more outgoing person in their friend group)