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submitted 2 months ago by schizoidman@lemm.ee to c/world@lemmy.world
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[-] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 185 points 2 months ago

From what I’ve read, Japan’s work ethic has been more about presenteeism than productivity for a while. While long hours are the norm, it’s more important to be seen to be working than to be productive, so you don’t leave before the boss does, but you do spend a large amount of that time staring out the window or otherwise idling.

[-] expatriado@lemmy.world 59 points 2 months ago
[-] ijedi1234@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 months ago

今こそ日本語の話し方を学ぶ、expatriadoさん。

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[-] jubilationtcornpone@sh.itjust.works 48 points 2 months ago

I worked at a place where basically every other department would stand in the lobby at 4:58 PM, waiting for accounting (which was on the other side of the building) to leave. If you didn't wait, the CEO would likely see you from his office window and you'd be getting a "talking to" by your supervisor the next day. I have never before or since worked anywhere where I've seen so much collective time wasting, trying to keep up the appearance of being busy.

This was an American company. I don't miss that shit hole in the slightest.

[-] Shirasho@lemmings.world 43 points 2 months ago

America has a mentality of "I'm paying you for your time, not the quality of your work." Even if you complete the work assigned to you they will throw a hissy fit if you leave one minute early because that is one minute they are paying you that you arent available if something goes wrong.

It's all ass backwards because it is cheaper in the short term to pay for cheap labor with low reliability and high availability than for expensive labor with high reliability and medium to low availability. If you take the high availability away from the former you are left with nothing.

[-] ijedi1234@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 months ago

Doing a good job is also self-defeating.

Managers want to see you grow every year. If you do your best early on in your career, you will hurt your ability to show growth that's visible to management. Therefore, the optimal solution is to do a better job by a barely perceptible amount every year, staying under your maximum quality output until you're retired/dead.

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[-] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 21 points 2 months ago

This is also going away (and it's less staring out the window and more pretending to be busy), but it's not going to happen overnight, particularly where the micro-managing dinosaurs are still in control. I've worked at two (fairly westernized) Japanese companies and have not seen this personally, but know many who have.

[-] frickineh@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

I've been reading more about the job market in Spain lately and it sounds like they have a similar problem. Not nearly to the extent that Japan does, but similar attitudes about being at work for unnecessarily long hours even if there's no real point. There doesn't appear to be any reward, either. I don't blame people for declining to participate.

[-] Pacattack57@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

It is seen as a positive to fall asleep at work because it means you’re working hard 😂

[-] ddash@lemmy.dbzer0.com 142 points 2 months ago

Fuck the term quiet quitting. Call it what it is, doing your job.

[-] Rooty@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

Employee burnout is a symptom of a toxic work culture, and "quiet quitting" is a corporate psyop invented to prevent you from noticing it.

[-] SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 points 2 months ago
[-] wellheh@lemmy.sdf.org 51 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's corporate media term for doing what your job requires, but not giving your time to companies for free

[-] lagoon8622@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 months ago

Corpo media licking boots so hard they're literally breathless

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 9 points 2 months ago

Corpos own the media, so they're literally just the trumpets of money hoarders

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[-] BussyCat@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago

It’s doing the bare minimum, sometimes below the minimum so that they have to fire you. Like how you would act if your boss yelled at you for no reason and you no longer care about your job.

[-] SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

So is the goal to actually get fired? Or to just not go for a promotion? I'm a little confused.

Or is it the guy from office space? "[make a guy]...work just hard enough to not get fired."

Edit: Oh.. I've got a good way to help clarify this...

Another office space reference, but I think this quantifies it well:

So if they ask you to wear 37 pieces of flair, is quiet quitting wearing 35, 36, 37, or 38 pieces of flair?

  1. and that's a write up for explicit underperformance and en route to being let go.

  2. is basically the same thing but could be taken as a technicality or mistake.

  3. is technically right, but a lot of shitty bosses will have a fit with their own standards and be all passive aggressive about it, and may even rock the boat until they have to fire you.

  4. is juuust above the bare minimum, so they can't say shit, but you won't be getting a promotion anytime soon.

And anything above that, I'm just going to categorize as not quiet quitting for sake of simplicity. Don't worry about performance percentages, that's not the point here.

[-] BussyCat@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

The goal is apathy. How can I put in the absolute minimum amount of effort to not get fired with the mindset that if I did get fired it wouldn’t be the end of the world. It generally comes from feeling like you aren’t appreciated or properly compensated from your job.

I think the guy from office space with the “work just hard enough to not get fired” sums it up perfectly

It’s not a new concept as office space made a joke about it in the 90s but it’s a current buzzword and becomes more applicable as the gap between C suites and average employees continues to grow

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[-] Bakkoda@sh.itjust.works 25 points 2 months ago

"Businesses can no longer rely solely on the goodwill of employees that they have financially and emotionally abused to the point of class collapse."

People are just doing the bare minimum and that's not ok by the CEO.

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[-] Ironfist79@lemmy.world 9 points 1 month ago

Literally doing your job. And nothing else.

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[-] xep@fedia.io 114 points 2 months ago

The phrase "quiet quitting" really grinds my gears. Are you fulfilling the terms of your employment contract? Yes? Then you're working, and haven't quit.

[-] BassTurd@lemmy.world 38 points 2 months ago

I'm not quiet quitting, I'm doing exactly the work I am paid to do and no more of the extra stuff I'm not paid to do.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 107 points 2 months ago

From the original reporting in the Japan Times:

Some 45% of full-time employees in Japan are “quiet quitters” — workers doing the bare minimum to meet their job requirements

Oh, no! People are doing their jobs! What a disaster!

[-] doctortofu@reddthat.com 37 points 2 months ago

I much prefer the term "acting your wage". I'm not doing the bare minimum - I'm doing what I'm paid for. You want me to do more? Guess what, there's one way to motivate me to do so...

[-] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 75 points 2 months ago

Yea, every article using the term quiet quitting is getting a down vote. Doing what you're paid for is simply doing your job. This is basically akin to getting mad you didn't get a tip. A TIP IS OPTIONAL.

[-] SreudianFlip@sh.itjust.works 27 points 2 months ago

Doing just what you’re paid for and not one bit more is called “Work to Rule” and it’s just total bullshit that it’s an effective labour tactic of resistance, because it implies that exploitation is part of the expectation in capitalism.

People want to do a good job and employers milk that.

[-] Azzu@lemm.ee 22 points 2 months ago

You're doing exactly as much as required? How rude of you.

[-] blarghly@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

I mean, that's not what quiet quitting is. Quiet quitting is doing the bare minimum to not get fired from your job, which is different from the bare minimum that would be reasonably expected of you. Most of the time, if your employer actually knew how much work you were doing, they would want to fire you, and it would be for-cause, because you are doing essentially nothing.

This is possible because many workplaces have very little accountability. One of the classic moves is to always be working on multiple projects - so anytime someone asks you to do something, you say "I dunno how quickly I'll be able to get that done, I'm pretty swamped from X" - at which point everyone sagely nods and agrees that the team working on X is definitely swamped.

If your bosses actually knew that you were just lying, and were spending 7.5 hours everyday playing video games, you'd be fired. But since they don't know that, you can keep getting paid for showing up to a few meetings every week. That's what quiet quitting is.

[-] Alexstarfire@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

I have never seen the term used the way you describe. Because doing that is definitely not doing your job and grounds for termination if they ever found out.

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[-] JigglySackles@lemmy.world 53 points 1 month ago

I fucking hate the 'quiet quitting' term. It puts the onus on the people who are tired of the inhumane hours and treatment, and the accompanying meager pay. Instead of putting it on the companies and government whose policies and ethics are fostering these awful conditions which engender these sorts of worker responses. It's not quiet quitting. It's holding boundaries between work and personal life. It's not allowing the company to steal your time away from you. It's preventing the company from overstepping their position in your life. It's so many things that are important and 'quiet quitting' does those people a disservice in favor of a catchy corporate approved soundbite. I find that disgusting.

[-] tfowinder@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 month ago

I did not find any proper meaning of phrase quiet quitting

It might as well mean - working only the amount you are paid for - which sounds totally reasonable.

Totally corporate worded article.

[-] TeddE@lemmy.world 12 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's a phrase meant to replace the old phrase "working your wage", because that way of viewing it makes the whole situation less dramatic and more noble … and generates less clicks. Classic newsspeak.

[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 9 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I always took it to mean "doing the least amount of work possible without getting fired." If someone's making an effort to work the amount they're paid for, I wouldn't consider it quiet quitting.

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[-] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 30 points 2 months ago

Not listed in the article but, starting around corona, price increases started happening all over the place. Russia's attack on Ukraine also caused price increases here for a number of reasons. Rice is now around double what it was a year ago (https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/backstories/3949/ -- some general price increase, also shortages due to weather and shitty planning). The news keeps talking about price increases every month. Wages? Hardly budging. People are getting a lower quality of life for the same amount of work so of course the desire to put up with bullshit is dropping.

Now, if people would vote for anyone else, we might see something happen. Voter turnout is terrible in Japan. As a non-citizen, I can't vote so nothing I can do there. (Technically, there are some local elections that non-citizens can vote in (I think all requiring permanent residency permits) but nothing at an upper level).

[-] psmgx@lemmy.world 29 points 2 months ago

Goddamn I wish they'd stop using "quiet quitting"

[-] tamman2000@lemm.ee 21 points 2 months ago

This is what happens in societies that have increasing income inequality.

Why should workers feel compelled to bust their asses when it benefits their bosses, but not themselves?

[-] scroll_responsibly@lemmy.sdf.org 21 points 2 months ago
[-] mrodri89@lemmy.zip 18 points 2 months ago

Thank goodness. Now when im napping during work I can feel less guilty thinking about Japan doing it too.

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[-] rasakaf679@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 month ago

You miss spelled it... Its not quiet quitting... Its doing what's necessary and nothing excess.. if you aren't paid for it

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[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 17 points 1 month ago

Man, fuck all those guys for doing their job to a sufficient quality and quantity to not get fired, eh?

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[-] drspawndisaster@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Considering that work ethic literally kills people: Good.

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[-] mavu@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 1 month ago

we should normalize to punch everyone in the gut who uses the words "quiet quitting".

[-] lka1988@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Heh, I've seen this personally. I work for a Japanese company, and part of my job is coordinating tooling installations with the factory I'm stationed at (pick a chip fab in the US, I've probably been there). When we get a tool onsite, I get an install team directly from our factory in Japan who handles all the physical installation aspects. They work hard, efficiently, and with the utmost care for the finer details (some of these tools are expected to last 20+ years - we have a few that have been in production for nearly as long with very little fuss). Occasionally, they will finish their tasks early the last couple days and take off after lunch, letting me know of this beforehand and that their daily reports will be sent to me and other relevant managers at the "usual" time, with a wink and a nod.

I don't care how much time they clock, as long as shit gets done properly. Haven't had any issues.

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[-] Croquette@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago

It was probably higher before, but it wasn't as acceptable to say it as it is today.

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[-] MetalMachine@feddit.nl 7 points 1 month ago

The Japanese work ethic doesn't even make sense and does more harm than good. If you don't have time for yourself or family the society will collapse (already happening). To be clear, I'm not talking about being diligent work, but working 8+ hours every single day.

Many Japanese don't leave work at 5pm even though those are the official business hours because it's rude to leave before the boss leaves. So people stay at work until 7 or 8pm. Many times having to also go drinking with co-workers or the boss. So, depending on the day, you may end up with 1-2 hours for yourself. No wonder they aren't having children, and depression rates are sky high.

Same applies to Korea.

[-] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

Not commenting on "quiet quitting" meme thing

As they should

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this post was submitted on 05 May 2025
598 points (95.0% liked)

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