Its also worth noting, that kids, especially when they are aware of their condition before puberty, are gonna have a really fucking bad time in puberty. Seeing your body change in a way, that is directly contradictory to what you want can be absolute hell. Theres also the possibility to prescribe puberty blockers and therefore stopping puberty. If a kid then later decides, that it does want to go through puberty they can stop taking the blockers. They won't really have any long term changes from going through puberty some time later, but on the other hand you just made the life of all kids that dont want to go through puberty way better.

the right wingers don't see any problem with this.

And then let's not forget beauty pageants and professional kids sports in general. All of it in my eyes is extremely unethical. Kids should be doing their own growing up and their own clubs focused on meaningful growth not entertainment.

This is actually one of real problems of capitalism that no one is talking about. Since early investments are incredibly valuable in capitalistic societies kids with early entertainment training have advantage but using kids for entertainments is in practice simply unethical. This is equivalent of sexualizing kids early so they become sexy adults. Nasty stuff when you spend a minute actually thinking about.

Generally all peak athletes started very young, probably because of the parent's dreams and not the child's. I would have a problem with a lot of those situations.

Not the same, but according to wikipedia it is also sometimes used to treat ADHD

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Its literally the first sentence of the "use" section.

No, but my Vyvanse does specifically say “Methamphetamine…” on the bottle sooo…

Of course the dose is different, and the context too, but still.

Yes it is. The argument is that people having a moral panic over kids getting gender affirming care (which they erroneously believe to be bottom surgery, that's another can of worms), which is shown to be safe and effective, are not having the same moral panic (and even are likely to be the same demographic enabling this behaviour) over actual, proven to be a disaster for your health activities, shows that all these people are simply transphobes.

I like how the biggest reasons for it are either "I can't spare the moisture for cleaning it, so it's better to cut it off" and "the guy who invented corn flakes said foreskins are Satan's eyelids"

I've been without my ADHD meds for a couple days since II ran out and since I was changing the dosage I decided not to get a refill until then, and my God i am so annoying without them.

anybody who claims to not want to put people on ADHD medicine should have to sit next to me explaining F1 drivers and shit at a restaurant where I'm not getting the social cues to shut up

I don't think the point was to put down people with ADHD, I think it was to point out the hypocrisy in not letting people control their bodies. I agree with your point though, getting my sister diagnosed was really frustrating for her :(

So here's where the whole "but kids shouldn't make these decisions" arguement kind of falls apart... You are assuming it's the kids making the decisions.

The reality here is there is a bar that trans kids need to pass to be eligible which requires the signoff of a whole panel of adults based on the observed behaviour, self descriptive process and recorded outcomes of thousands of trans people in the past creating a rubric that professionals draw on. Being trans and the way gender is processed by trans people is actually more different from being cis than a lot of cis people are aware and the presentations of transness are actually pretty consistent. The regret rate is astronomically low - kind of to the point where it is actually unusual because of the level of care taken to predict and assess potential harm.

To get puberty blockers you need first a child who wants them, then all guardians of the child to agree it is worth pursuing. Then you require the endorsement of a psychiatrist with years of consultation and a social worker to make sure the home situation is above board and nobody is being coerced. Then you need a pediatrician to sign off on the standing health of the paitent, and endocrinologist to assess the safety of pursuing blockers...

It's not a one time thing either, you have to have routine check ins once things start and if any of these adults remove their endorsement of the paitent then it doesn't matter what the kid wants. It's not happening.

If anything medical starts going wrong long term health remains priority.

So can we please not pretend it's dumb children showing up to a tattoo parlor? It's a panel of professionals working off predictions based off of a nigh century of diagnostic data in conjunction with parents making informed decisions on behalf of their incredibly dedicated child- because these kids need to self advocate like fucking crazy at all points of the process... Which in itself tends to disqualify kids who don't absolutely need this because it's a job and a half.

This is designed as ironclad ethical assisted decision-making as can be made and people are being tricked into thinking that somehow this process is not as rigorously checked for flaws or deals with consent of minors differently than any other form of pediatric medicine. Why is that?

The important thing to remember with trans kids is that there isn’t a ‘do nothing’ option if they want HRT. ‘Nothing’ is actually ‘force them to undergo puberty for the wrong gender,’ which is traumatic and has effects as permanent as taking HRT.

Going through puberty with HRT as a trans person isn’t any more inappropriate than going through natal puberty is for cis kids. Natal puberty is having permanent, unpredictable effects on their bodies as well, except we just call that growing up. Trans teens also deserve to grow up like their peers, without spending most of their waking hours managing their dysphoria because some third party who’s never met them is uncomfortable.

Others have given great responses there, but I just wanted to chime in my two cents. The major difference between your example and trans kids is that the latter make decisions in concert with family and medical professionals. Often times, not just a family doctor, but also a psychologist (to discuss feelings of gender incongruence) and endocrinologist (because hormones are extremely powerful, no matter which way you slice it) on top of the regular fare.

These medical professionals are making decisions based on the most up-to-date, widely held medical consensus -- which is to let trans kids transition with medical guidance. That doesn't apply in your hypothetical, because there is no agreed upon medical prognosis on kids going through identity issues (which is a normal part of psychology, whereas gender dysphoria very much is abnormal, divergence from the mean). That also goes for giving ADHD kids medication if that helps them -- not all psychs rush to push pills on kids, but if it makes a huge difference and helps a child, who are you as a layman to force them to continue suffering? Being on ADHD medication (or puberty blockers) can be a night and day difference for someone, whether they are kids or not.

Tangent: We in western society infantilize children a lot, I feel. In a lot of eastern/(global) southern culture, kids are a functional part of the household unit, almost little adults. Parents aren't afraid to give their kids some semblance of responsibility because it helps them grow. From that perspective, it seems almost odd that the west wants to coddle kids so much. Not accusing you of this, just something I've noticed.

That's the thing they though don't have to just "cut off their nose", there puberty blockers which hit the pause button and prevent going through the wrong puberty, which they give to kids with precocious puberty without any moral outrage.

No pediatrician is going to be giving 10 year old any sort of hormonal therapy unless things are seriously out of whack (ie something like congenital adrenal hyperplasia) however the usual standard of care for children who are experiencing any sort of gender dysphoria is to put them on puberty blockers which simply delays puberty until they are old enough to choose.

The transgender care that children receive gives them a choice in how their body develops they would not otherwise have.

My controversial opinion is that all children should be encouraged to take puberty blockers in addition to having a say in how their body develops it has additional benefits of: significant reduction in teen pregnancies, reduced sexualization of minors, reduced stress during a time when a lot is already changing, etc.