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Anon turns on raytracing (sh.itjust.works)
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[-] TheGreenWizard@lemmy.zip 41 points 21 hours ago

Raytracing is cool, personaly I feel like the state that consumers first got it in was atrocious, but it is cool. What I worry about is the ai upscale, fake frame bullshit. While it's cool that the technology exists; like sweet, my GPU can render this game at a lower resolution, then upscale it back at a far better frame rate than without upscaling, ideally stretching out my GPU purchase. But I feel like games (in the AAA scene at least) are so unoptimized now, you NEED all of these upscaling, fake frame tricks. I'm not a Dev, I don't know shit about making games, just my 2 cents.

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 3 points 12 hours ago

The joke is, LCD smear anyway on low framerates.

[-] Baggie@lemmy.zip 9 points 18 hours ago

No you've pretty much hit it on the head there. The higher ups want it shipped yesterday, if you can ship it without fixing those performance issues they're likely going to make you do that.

[-] NoForwardslashS@sopuli.xyz 16 points 20 hours ago

Raytracing will be cool if hardware can catch it up. It's pretty pointless if you have to play upscaled to turn the graphics up. And as you say, upscaling has its uses and is great tech, but when a game needs it to not look like dogshit (looking at you Stalker 2) it worries me a lot.

[-] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

I feel like if you have the level of a 3070 or above at 1080p, pathtracing, even with the upscaling you need, can be an option. At least based on my experience with portal rtx.

Personally I have a 3060, but (in the one other game I actually have played on it with raytracing support) I still turned on raytraced shadows in Halo Infinite because I couldn't really notice a difference in responsiveness. There definitely was one (I have a 144hz monitor) but I just couldn't notice it.

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[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 155 points 1 day ago

We’ve gotten so good at faking most lighting effects that honestly RTX isn’t a huge win except in certain types of scenes.

[-] red@sopuli.xyz 25 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

The difference is pretty big when there are lots of reflective surfaces, and especially when light sources move (prebaked shadows rarely do, and even when, it's hardly realistic).

A big thing is that developers use less effort and the end result looks better. That's progress. You could argue it's kind of like when web developers finally were able to stop supporting IE9 - it wasn't big for end users, but holy hell did the job get more enjoyable, faster and also cheaper.

[-] Klear@lemmy.world 13 points 19 hours ago

Cyberpunk and Control are both great examples - both games are full of reflective surfaces and it shows. Getting a glimpse of my own reflection in a dark office is awesome, as is tracking enemy positions from cover using such reflections.

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[-] count_dongulus@lemmy.world 26 points 1 day ago

But, it takes a lot of work by designers to get the fake lighting to look natural. Raytracing would help avoid that toil if the game is forced RT.

[-] Atherel@lemmy.dbzer0.com 93 points 23 hours ago

Gamers needs expensive hardware so designer has less work. Game still not cheaper.

[-] Thassodar@lemm.ee 18 points 23 hours ago

I took pickes and tomatoes off my burger, where's my $0.23 discount damn it?!

[-] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 31 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Let's assume cutting out tomatoes and pickles saved $0.23 per hamburger.

McDonald's serves 6.5 million hamburgers a day.
That's $500 million extra yearly profit for their shareholders.

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[-] frezik@midwest.social 16 points 18 hours ago

The best examples of raytracing are in applying it to old games, like Quake II or Portal or Minecraft.

Newer games were already hitting diminishing returns on photo realism. Adding ray tracing takes them from 95% photo realistic to 96%.

[-] MurrayL@lemmy.world 14 points 16 hours ago

I disagree - adding RT to games that weren’t designed for it often (but not always) wrecks the original art direction.

Quake II is a great example; I think the raytraced version looks like absolute ass. Sure, it has fancy shadows and reflections, but all that does is highlight how old the assets are.

[-] Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world 9 points 16 hours ago

Portal with ray tracing is a really cool demo, and Ive used it on the past to show off ray tracing. But man its just not as pretty as the old portal because it lacks the charm, its like those nature photos that are blown out with HDR

[-] AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago

I always loved the graphics of Portal 2 but didn't really see the appeal of those from Portal 1. I think the "with-rtx" version was more on the portal 2 side, so I was fine with it.

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 3 points 16 hours ago

Same with Minecraft. Minecraft looks like crap, and improving the lighting, shadows and so on just shows that off even more.

Minecraft is a game that's deliberately not about the looks.

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[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 1 points 13 hours ago

often (but not always) wrecks the original art direction.

Which is sometimes a nice benefit. Not to talk about the "layer" in a specific color that suddenly goes away if you enable levelsplus in Reshade. The most extreme example i've seen was Elex 1.

[-] lorty@lemmy.ml 11 points 18 hours ago

But you NEED the green and expensive GPU, otherwise you are missing out!!!!

[-] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 22 points 20 hours ago

Early 3D graphic rendering was all ray-tracing, but when video games started doing textured surfaces the developers quickly realised they could just fake it with alpha as long as the light sources were static.

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[-] murvel@feddit.nu 37 points 22 hours ago

It's not a trick, it's just lighting done the way it should be done without all the tricks we need now like Subsurface scattering or Screen space reflections.

The added benefit is that materials reflect more of their natural reflection making all the materials look more true to life.

Its main drawback is that it's GPU costly, but more and more AAA games are now moving toward RT as standard by being more clever in how it handles its calculations.

[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 30 points 21 hours ago

Yes, I'm sure every player spends the majority of their game time admiring the realistic material properties of Spider-Man's suit. So far I've never seen a game that was made better by forcing RT into it. A little prettier if you really focus on the details where it works, but overall it's a costly (in terms of power, computation, and price) gimmick.

[-] itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 21 hours ago

The one benefit I see is that it simplifies lighting for the developer by a whole lot.

Which isn't a benefit at all, because as of now, they basically have to have a non-raytrace version so 90% of players can play the game

But in a decade, maybe, raytracing will make sense as the default

[-] WhiteBurrito@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago

I've always said that, because the baseline GPUs are the RTX 3060 and the RX 6700 (consoles equivalent).... And those GPUs aren't doing amazing RT so, what's the point in pushing it so hard NOW for the 1% of users with a 4090 or whatever?

[-] itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 10 hours ago

Hell, I got a RX 7900 XTX and for some games, my fps are not consistently at 60 fps

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[-] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Games visuals are riddled with shortcuts and simplification.

You don't think the way the water moves when your characters steps on a puddle, the smoke rises from fires or the damage on the walls are Physics Simulations, do you?!

It's all a variation of a procedural noise such as ~~Perkin~~ Perlin Noise, particle effects, or at best (for example, ocean simulation) some formulas that turn out to look good enough.

(Want to see Physics Simulations in 3D generated worlds, look at Special Effects in Films).

Improving one element of game space visual fidelity - reflections - is nice but it's unclear that it's worth its downsides (more expensive hardware, slower performance) given how everything else is still one big pile of "good enough" shortcuts.

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[-] Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

Subsurface scattering is not one of the things you get automatically with ray tracing. If you just bounce the rays off objects as would be the usual first step in implementing ray tracing you don't get any light penetration into the object, so none of that depth.

Maybe you meant ambient occlusion?

[-] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 2 points 14 hours ago

This. Personally I think you can't really expect gamers to know all of that. The only reason I know this particular fact is cause I'm using Blender. It's a bit paradox, but really just pointless to talk about the technical details of games with gamers.

[-] vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 22 hours ago

raytracing still needs to do subsurface scattering. It can actually do it for real though. It also "wastes" a lot of bounces, so is usually approximated anyway

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[-] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 12 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

But maybe finally games will get working mirrors again.

[-] hazl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 52 points 1 day ago

Maximise your RTX performance with this one crazy hack!

Ray traced reflections: on
Ray traced everything else: off

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 15 points 21 hours ago

I'd argue reflections are nowhere near as nice looking as RTGI. If anything, switch reflections off.

[-] hazl@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 20 hours ago

But muh puddles! Night City is nothing without those gorgeous, mirror–like puddles.

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[-] latenightnoir@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

The first F.E.A.R. had excellent dynamic lighting, I'd argue it had the epitome of relevant dynamic lighting. It didn't need to set your GPU on fire for it, it didn't have to sacrifice two thirds of its framerate for it, it had it all figured out. It did need work on textures, but even those looked at least believable due to the lighting system. We really didn't need more than that.

RT is nothing but eye candy and a pointless resource hog meant to sell us GPUs with redundant compute capacities, which don't even guarantee that the game'll run any better! And it's not just RT, it's 4k textures, it's upscaling, it's Ambient Occlusion, all of these things hog resources without any major visual improvement.

Upgraded from a 3060 to a 4080 Super to play STALKER 2 at more than 25 frames per second. Got the GPU, same basic settings, increased the resolution a bit, +10 FPS... Totes worth the money...

Edit: not blaming GSC for it, they're just victims of the AAA disease.

Edit 2: to be clear, my CPU's an i7, so I doubt it had much to do with the STALKER bottleneck, considering it barely reached 60% usage, while my GPU was panting...

Edit 3: while re-reading this, it hit me that I sound like the Luddite Boss, so I need to clarify this for myself more than anyone else: I am not against technological advancement, I want tech in my eyeballs (literally), I am against "advancements" which exist solely as marketing accolades.

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[-] amotio@lemmy.world 17 points 23 hours ago

I have seen FEW games that really benefit from RT. RT is a subtle effect because we'we got pretty good at baking and faking how light should look.

But even if its just a subtle effect, it adds so much, the feeling of the lighting is (for me) better wit RT, light properly propagates, bounces, dynamic geometry is properly lit. It's just so much of these, on the bigger scale, tiny upgrades that make the lighting look a lot better.

It just sucks that the performance is utter shit right now. I hope in few years this will be optimised and we won't need to sacrifice 1\2 of the framerate just to get lighting that feels right.

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this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2025
679 points (97.9% liked)

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