91
submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by lgsp@feddit.it to c/fuckcars@lemmy.world

The absurdity of the proposal is already in the title, and shows how motonormativity is spread all over the world.

Berlin has a very good public transit system, and a few 30 km/h zones cannot be that bad.

I would love to hear opinions from someone who lives there!

crossposted from: https://mastodon.uno/users/rivoluzioneurbanamobilita/statuses/114732266280428499

top 42 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 28 points 3 weeks ago

Conservatives won the last election in Berlin in case you were wondering.

[-] SchadeMarmelade@feddit.org 1 points 3 weeks ago

So lets go ahead and conserve destructive policies.

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 0 points 2 weeks ago

They didn't win really. There was a coalition of the "Social Democrats", Greens and Left. Because the "Social Democrats" are utterly incompetent, the state election had to be repeated because they fucked up the election process.

In the repeated election the Greens and Left had about the same votes and the "Social Democrats" lost hard. Still the coalition maintained a majority and could have continued. Instead the "Social Democrats" betrayed the coalition, claimed the election was a "clear signal against it" and became the smaller partner to the nationalist Berlin CDU, who campaigned on the notion that your surname shows whether you are a "real" German or merely a German citizen.

It is the classical liberals backstabbing progressives to embrace right/far-right politics move.

Now this current government has set out to destroy every achievement of the old government while ignoring the grave issues with housing, infrastructure, social security, climate mitigation...

Now of course after two years of that, the current government is deeply unpopular, but such is the cycle of Berlin. Have a reasonable government manage somewhat, then people elect the reactionaries, believing they would "fix" things only to fuck everything up more and have the progressive government after try to pull the cart out of the ~~dirt~~ sinkhole.

[-] harmsy@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

such is the cycle of ~~Berlin~~ every democracy ever

FTFY

[-] Ekpu@lemmy.world 18 points 3 weeks ago

Yep sounds absurd. As I unterstand it the problem is that you need a reason for 30 km/h zones. The reason was the air quality which is now better so there is no reason anymore. Some zones may be kept because the streets are used by school kids.

I think this is still absurd and good 30 km/h zones with synced traffic lights can yield a good traffic flow.

[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 weeks ago

The air is better, but if we keep not ruining it, it will be too good.

Then the lungs of our children will grow weak.

[-] Hupf@feddit.org 2 points 3 weeks ago

The children will not be ready for the mines then.

[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago

Exactly! They shall be as coal and as bellows in our furnaces!

[-] ChilledPeppers@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago

You dont get it, bad air quality creates strong lungs, strong lungs creates good air quality, good air quality creates weak lungs, weak lungs create bad air quality. /s

[-] parlaptie@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago

You really don't think posting this joke once is enough?

[-] outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago

Weak children are no joke.

[-] sdcSpade@lemmy.zip 12 points 3 weeks ago

Let's bring back CFCs. The ozone layer has recovered, so it's fine.

[-] deaddigger@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 weeks ago

It hasnt it will take another 60 years to fully recover

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

ozone recovers

but the planet is now too warm to live

[-] CitizenKong@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Don't give them ideas, they already want to bring back asbestos.

[-] caesaravgvstvs@feddit.org 5 points 3 weeks ago

Can't wait for these useless assholes to be voted out next year

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 weeks ago
[-] Don_alForno@feddit.org 1 points 3 weeks ago

Current polls at least suggest it's possible.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 points 3 weeks ago

My small town in the UK was going to be a pilot for a blanket 20mph speed limit.

This was interpreted by the local Insane People Facebook group as being woke, a war on motorists, a New World Order 15 Minute Cities scheme and a Chinese style program to prevent people going anywhere.

They then voted in a Reform Party local council, who promptly delivered on their promises to cut waste and loss DOGE style, by closing a local community centre...

Now the Insane People Facebook page is demanding to know why Labour has closed it. 🤡

The mad thing is, it's practically impossible to drive at more than 20mph anyway due to all the potholes. We're apparently twinned with the surface of the moon.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

That's something I noticed in the last two weeks that I spent in the UK. You simply cannot reach the speed limit. If you actually drive through a normal UK city at the given speed limits, you'll lose your dentures or your teeth, and/or your car.

I was sent by my GPS on a "road" that was about as wide as my car. Left and right it was greens, more than a mans height, and the "road" zig-zagged through nowhere. You had to drive at walking speed around the corners, as there was traffic in both directions. Official speed limit: 50mph / 80km/h

[-] Regrettable_incident@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Oh yeah, a lot of our country roads are like that. Single lane, tall hedges both sides. Usually the limit is 60mph, but most people drive slower. I do 30 or 40mph and just be ready to brake for oncoming traffic.

[-] Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 3 weeks ago

CDU never changes with their stupidity

[-] copdeb@crazypeople.online 4 points 2 weeks ago

This could be a great example of the "mental fenze" cognitive model. We remove things without understanding why were there in the first place

[-] jimjam5@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Seriously.

Case in point, I had a student once who had a note on file to watch for seizures. Me and other teachers/staff were puzzled as this student didn’t have this worry of seizures the years before — turns out the children’s home they were housed at took them OFF the anti-seizure medication they were on, noting that the student didn’t need the medicine anymore as they were not showing signs of seizures. WTF?!

Sorry to spew political rhetoric like vomit everywhere, but this reminds me of the same self-inflicted idiocy of trump and his cultists.

[-] Amir@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 weeks ago

To be honest, anti-seizure medication has significant side effects, maybe they were hoping the seizures were gone so they could stop needing the medication

[-] jimjam5@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I guess that’s a consideration for some, but that student was experiencing seizures (again) after being taken off the meds.

Knowing this specific children/orphan home, they do some backward ass things beyond what I care to share/type out so we just chalked it up to most likely the change in staff at the children’s home (the head nurse over there, *cough* that bitch *cough*) don’t know what they’re doing and/or they’re bad at their job. Last I heard before I left, the student’s case worker was working with our school nurse to pressure the children’s home to get the student back on their anti-seizure meds.

*Edit: and not to downplay the severity of the side effects that can accompany powerful medications which I have seen firsthand, or to say that it doesn’t make a difference anyway with this student’s future, but this student is also a very high needs special education student with an all too familiar tragic background. They can’t go to the bathroom on their own, let alone do things like take friggin tests, so we at the school thought, might as well make them comfortable at least and quell the seizures 🤷

[-] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 4 points 3 weeks ago

motonormativity

I like the new slur!

[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

I had to read that a few times to understand it :)

[-] lgsp@feddit.it 0 points 3 weeks ago
[-] squaresinger@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Wasn't the word motonormativity from you? I had to re-read that word a few times to get what you were saying with it and it's good.

sunzu2 called it a slur, and a good one at that.

[-] lgsp@feddit.it 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I wish I was that clever, but no. It's from a researcher named Ian Walker, coined in a very interesting article. It has its own Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motonormativity

Also mainstream articles: https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/31/23579510/car-brain-motornormativity-study-ian-walker

And a video by GCN! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_4GZnGl55c

I'm surprised that by being in the fuck cars community you never heard the term!

[-] bimbimboy@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

Shit, I laughed out loud here. This is some The Onion shit

[-] lgsp@feddit.it 1 points 3 weeks ago

If the Onion is not out of business yet, it will be soon. Reality is more ridiculous than what they can come up with...

[-] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 1 points 3 weeks ago

I don't really understand this. Air quality is not affected if it's electric cars. If it's about ICE cars - then, in general, efficiency goes up till ~90km/h.

I feel like the limit was lowered for a fake reason and is now suggested to be brought back up for a bad one.

[-] RunawayFixer@lemmy.world 4 points 3 weeks ago

The evidence of studies says that you are wrong.

Here are some key points from a study summary that was made for London: 20mph zones do not appear to worsen air quality and they dramatically reduce road danger. They also support a shift to walking and cycling, generate less traffic noise and reduce community severance. In 20mph zones vehicles move more smoothly with fewer accelerations and decelerations. This driving style produces fewer particulate emissions.

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/speed-emissions-and-health.pdf

[-] Illecors@lemmy.cafe 1 points 3 weeks ago

Fair enough on the part in bold.

As someone who lives in London, I can say it does come with a caveat - traffic system here are set up by chimpanzees. It makes no sense, none of the three groups - pedestrians, cyclists or drivers - get prioritised. None of the lights are interconnected, so all they bring is annoyance for everyone. I'm an occasional pedestrian, cycling commuter and a (mostly) weekend driver.

TLDR - no wonder the study found that.

[-] Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 weeks ago

In Berlin, only 3% of all registered cars are pure electric cars (numbers from 2024).

Speeds of 30 km/h lower the emissions of nitrogen oxide from cars with combustion engines. This happens because of significant reduction of pollutant-laden acceleration processes.

The reduction of emissions from such a speed limit is based on more uniform traffic flows.

[-] teuniac_@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Lower speeds reduce road danger

Are extra casualties and reduced freedom for people who aren't driving worth the few minutes saved for a minority of people?

[-] syreus@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Slow speeds make public transit a little more attractive to people on a time budget.

[-] Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is not necessarily the case - it has been shown that slower car speeds in cities leads to better traffic flows and thus can lead to more efficiency of car travel, less traffic jams. So everyone driving slower can lead to more reliability and less average travel duration of cars.

[-] Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago

Die Freiluftirrenanstalt Berlin

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Let the genocider fanboys choke

this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2025
91 points (94.2% liked)

Fuck Cars

12591 readers
276 users here now

A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

Rules

1. Be CivilYou may not agree on ideas, but please do not be needlessly rude or insulting to other people in this community.

2. No hate speechDon't discriminate or disparage people on the basis of sex, gender, race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or sexuality.

3. Don't harass peopleDon't follow people you disagree with into multiple threads or into PMs to insult, disparage, or otherwise attack them. And certainly don't doxx any non-public figures.

4. Stay on topicThis community is about cars, their externalities in society, car-dependency, and solutions to these.

5. No repostsDo not repost content that has already been posted in this community.

Moderator discretion will be used to judge reports with regard to the above rules.

Posting Guidelines

In the absence of a flair system on lemmy yet, let’s try to make it easier to scan through posts by type in here by using tags:

Recommended communities:

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS