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[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 6 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

This study is conducted using the Pew research American Trends Panel which is roughly 10,000 people around the US. Invitation is sent by mail. From this pool they randomly select participants for the study. While this panel is meant to be representative we must ask ourselves what kind of person is signing up for the Pew research American Trends Panel. Especially because invitation sent through physical mail. Full info in case I misread something

quoted study methodsFor this study, we surveyed U.S. adults on our nationally representative American Trends Panel (ATP). We verified their turnout using commercial voter files that aggregate publicly available official state turnout records. The first analysis of validated voters was completed after the 2016 election. Turnout was validated for subsequent elections in 2018, 2020, 2022 and 2024. Each state and the District of Columbia compiles these publicly available turnout records as part of their routine election administration.

To validate 2024 election turnout, we attempted to match adult citizens who are part of the ATP to a turnout record in at least one of three commercial voter files: one that serves conservative and Republican organizations and campaigns, one that serves progressive and Democratic organizations and campaigns, and one that is nonpartisan.

A member of the ATP is considered a validated voter for a given election if they:

Told us they voted, and
Were recorded as having voted in at least one of the three commercial voter files.

Those who said they did not vote in an election are considered nonvoters. Nonvoters also include anyone – regardless of their self-reported vote – for whom we could not locate a voting record in any of the three commercial voter files. Those who could not be matched were also considered nonvoters. Overall, 94% of panelists who we attempted to match were successfully matched to at least one of the three voter files.

The survey is weighted to be representative of the U.S. adult population by gender, race, ethnicity, partisan affiliation, education and other factors. For benchmarks of partisan affiliation within racial and ethnic categories, we used estimates produced by the Center’s 2023-24 Religious Landscape Study of more than 36,000 adults. In addition, this survey is weighted to benchmarks for voter turnout and presidential vote preference.

[-] WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 weeks ago

Thank you, I was questioning the results too, and your info perfectly illustrates why. I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that the most difficult eligible voters to predict are the kind of people who don’t check their mail, don’t sign up for research surveys, and don’t want to tell you who they’d vote for. Eligible non-voters didn’t care enough to vote, so why would they cast a ballot with Pew research?

[-] MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world 5 points 4 weeks ago

This is why it will take decades to undo the damage to the reputation of the United States on the world stage.

The world cannot count on Americans to vote for sanity.

[-] rumimevlevi@lemmings.world -1 points 4 weeks ago

Considered how many countries was couped or bombed by the united snakes, the reputation ahould have been so low for decades

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago

I think it was pretty perceptive of people that they can notice us being trapped in a slow decline and voting for chaos to get us off this path for better or worse.

Same thing happened in 2016. When people are disillusioned they vote for change, when the Democrats don't offer positive change then they vote for the Republicans who always cause negative change.

[-] MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago

From the outside looking in, I'm waiting for evidence that Americans want to scrub fascism out of their politics.

I'm not optimistic.

[-] Asafum@feddit.nl 1 points 4 weeks ago

The problem is the people voting for the fascists don't see it as that and are told by their chosen propaganda outlets that it isn't fascism, it's actually the people on the other side who want to do such horrible horrible things like: provide access to affordable childcare. Gasp!

There's also a lack of understanding of the concept of fascism as related to corporate subservience which a lot of Democrats could be guilty of as well. Unfortunately the shitforbrains SCOTUS ruled corporations are people, money is political speech, and a person's political speech can't be limited: unlimited spending for campaigns.

[-] ReallyAngryNerd@europe.pub 1 points 4 weeks ago

Even if people are misinformed or don't understand the concept of fascism, they still voted for a rapist. If you vote for a rapist, you are a bad person. You can't spin it any other way. Rape isn't that difficult to understand.

[-] Asafum@feddit.nl 1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Thats the thing about misinformation/disinformation, they're made to believe he didn't rape anyone and that it's all a "witch hunt." These people think he's gods gift to the earth and that everything he does is correct, that the only arguments against him are lies made by people who want him to be stopped. If they knew it as fact and still voted for him, then yeah they're garbage people for sure.

My father for example, I cannot get one single thing through his head if fox news or Newsmax didn't say it. He still believes they never deport anyone who isn't a violent criminal. Any article I could show him that says otherwise is "a lie." He's brainwashed to believe Republicans are the saviours, the Democrats are the ultimate evil, and the media is largely behind protecting Democrats by lying about everything... :(

[-] ReallyAngryNerd@europe.pub 2 points 4 weeks ago

That's tough. I would be devastated if my parents chose to believe some propaganda 'news' channel over what the sons they raised had to say.

[-] Asafum@feddit.nl 1 points 4 weeks ago

It's definitely frustrating. He's one of those "I'm always right" types and the propaganda is just confirmation bias for him, so if it reenforces something he already wants to believe. It's "I'm right, and they back it up with their "facts" on Fox, so obviously it's correct."

Honestly most of us live in a mirror reality. We see "them" as misinformed and brainwashed, and they see us in exactly the same way. He won't believe me because he believes I'm just misinformed.

[-] MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago

Oh, the rest of the world sees sees the wilful ignorance, and the considerable funds that go into entrenching it.

We also see that Americans don't consider the above to be sufficient reason to show up to vote against heavy handed social engineering designed to harm them.

The rest of the world is at the mercy of every fucking American election cycle, left with fading hope that Americans will pull their heads out of their asses.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 4 points 4 weeks ago

Fucking NPR goddammit.

The survey of almost 9,000 voters was conducted in the weeks after the 2024 presidential election.

You don’t see any problems with that?

[-] ThanksObama@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 weeks ago

Pretty sure most poling data has been "adjusted" to fit the narrative of the oligarchy at this point. Think for yourselves kids.

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

This was the Pew Research Center, the most credible polling organization in the US, and in the article it explains how they compensate for potential biases.

They even surveyed 9 times the usual sample size to make sure this was a legitimate trend.

The article is from NPR, the most credible news outlet in the US.

People need to snap out of this denial that the US didn't willingly vote in a fascist because we were sick of stagnation

[-] Xaphanos@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

But what if the data itself is the problem? The Rockland county tampering case may show that the voting machines did not report the actual vote. In that case, we have very good analysis of incorrect data.

[-] antisocialite@lemmy.today 1 points 4 weeks ago

Yeah, it's assuming the numbers they're working with weren't changed at the source.

[-] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 4 weeks ago

Polling is not the result, and doesn’t explain the discrepancies in the data.

[-] WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 4 weeks ago

“Most credible polling organization in the US” means just about nothing these days, in my opinion.

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago

Well your opinion is wrong.

They are as credible as the Associated Press.

[-] phutatorius@lemmy.zip -1 points 4 weeks ago

the most credible news outlet in the US

The most credible corporate-funded media outlet in the US.

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

You intentionally misread, that's so fucking disrespectful.

The Pew Research Center is not a news organization, and is controlled by a nonprofit.

"The Pew Charitable Trusts is an independent non-profit, non-governmental organization (NGO), founded in 1948."

If you would like to name a more credible US based polling org i challenge you to do so, i haven't seen one.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago

The article is from NPR, the most credible news outlet in the US.

the most credible news outlet in the US

The most credible corporate-funded media outlet in the US.

You intentionally misread, that's so fucking disrespectful.

The Pew Research Center is not a news organization, and is controlled by a nonprofit.

I don’t think they misread or were disrespectful.

[-] Asafum@feddit.nl 1 points 4 weeks ago

Idk. I want to agree, but that's how we got Qanon. Thinking for yourself without data is just inviting biases to control what you believe to be true.

I want it to be true that America would not have actually chosen Trump, but the older I get the more I see, the more I realize we're surrounded by severely under informed, misinformed, disinformed, igorant, selfish, people. The moment nuance is required to actually understand a situation, you can bet it won't be. :(

[-] auraithx@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

There is lots of data though. Trump had absolutely nothing and got laughed out of courts by judges he appointed.

https://electiontruthalliance.org/2024-us-election-analysis

[-] evenglow@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago

Reminder, QANON started on the internet as a joke making fun of Republicans.

[-] kmartburrito@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

I want it to be true that America would not have actually chosen Trump, but the older I get the more I see, the more I realize we're surrounded by severely under informed, misinformed, disinformed, igorant, selfish, people. The moment nuance is required to actually understand a situation, you can bet it won't be. :(

By design, unfortunately :(

[-] Tempus_Fugit@midwest.social 3 points 4 weeks ago

Just remember information can be manipulated to say anything you want.

[-] chunes@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago

Just a reminder that it is, in fact, possible for the claim to be true as well.

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

If find it's a bigger problem when people are presented with valid credible data and then still refuse to accept reality.

This thread consists of people in denyal about a survey that was conducted by the most credible organization that could have done it.

[-] DominatorX1@thelemmy.club 1 points 4 weeks ago

Maybe they saw trump as the lesser evil.

[-] mr_manager@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

Most people vote on vibes - that’s what the data always shows. They follow their peers, community, maybe a trusted authority figure. They are not, and have never been informed on issues, and they aren’t interested in learning more about them. I think those of us who do try to stay informed fall into the trap of thinking “if these folks were only better educated about this issue they would vote differently”. But that has never been and will never be true. Gotta project better vibes, baby!

[-] iopq@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

The more charismatic candidate wins almost every time. The parties and candidates already analyzed which issues will get them the votes, they have whole teams breaking down which positions poll the best in which county.

The actual result is based on which candidate voters would rather have a beer with. The elections are mostly decided by swing voters. Swing voters don't have strong opinions on the issues which is why they are swing voters

[-] mr_manager@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago

Exactly - this is a pretty good overview of the idea and the research behind it. We’ve always wanted to believe that people are fundamentally rational beings but it just isn’t true lol.

[-] Zaktor@sopuli.xyz 1 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Swing voters are not really the sole political deciders. They matter extra because they effectively count as two votes, but base turnout is often a larger effect than the actual swing voters.

About 15% of Biden's voters did not vote, 5% switched to Trump and 1% voted for someone else. That's compared to 11% of 2020 Trump voters, who sat it out, 3% who switched to Harris and 1% who went for someone else.

So of 2020 voters, Harris lost a net 4% to the couch and 2% to switching. You can count the switchers twice because they were a lost vote for Harris and a gained vote for Trump, so that's basically a wash. Trump then won a net 1% of people who didn't vote in 2020 (which coincidentally is roughly the same size as an individual candidate's 2020 voters). So doing better with any of those groups could have swung the election.

[-] WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 4 weeks ago

How could they have gotten this information without literally asking everyone in the country?

[-] dan@upvote.au 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

You really don't need to survey many people to get statistically significant results, assuming your sample is truly random. For a population of 340 million, you only need to randomly sample ~2500 people to get a 95% confidence interval with a 2% margin of error.

A sample of 9000 people would get you closer to a 99%+ confidence interval.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

Does a pre-cleared set of volunteers who willingly gave their demographic information in order to participate in online polls count as a random sample?

[-] dan@upvote.au 0 points 4 weeks ago

I don't know how participants in polls are selected, so I'm not really qualified to make assumptions about it.

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

The methodolgy section of their site lays it all out. It’s a selling point. And no, it’s not random.

[-] dan@upvote.au 0 points 4 weeks ago

And no, it’s not random.

In that case, the data is practically meaningless :D

[-] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago

Well that’s the thing. Do meaningless things make the national news everyday in October? Yes. And here we are in June. They’re gonna throw more money at us until we forget about 2016. And since that’s not going to happen, it’s all this.

[-] AmidFuror@fedia.io 0 points 4 weeks ago
[-] WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 4 weeks ago

I’m just saying that a good chunk of nonvoters have never voted, so there is no preexisting pattern to predict what they would do. For the last 4 elections, the polls have been largely incorrect. It just seems like a massive assumption to say if every single person voted, he still would have won, particularly when you consider the statistical anomalies in the swing states this last election.

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

The sample size for this survey was 9 times more than usual.

This is accurate data.

[-] limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 4 weeks ago

I have yet to understand how surveys compensate for most people ignoring unknown phone calls or texts. The ones who do answer are not representative of the total population.

I know some of people who were hit by scam surveys the last year, which are common too. Those scams scare some people away even from snail mail invites.

I think until these methods explained slowly, in small words, I am going to assume this is biased to older and more gullible , those who drift towards Trump.

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[-] WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com -1 points 4 weeks ago

Right, but that is a survey of the type of people who answer surveys. I have to wonder how many people who don’t bother to vote also do bother to answer surveys about voting.

[-] pwnicholson@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

Pretty sure an organization like Pew knows how yes l to handle the most basic challenges with polling (self-selection bias of those who answer polls). There are validated, proven ways to address those issues with a large enough sample size and specific methods for how and who they poll.

[-] limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 4 weeks ago

Pretty sure means don’t know.

I grew up on pew data; I was disappointed years ago when they stopped using face to face interviews.

Later, I could not get a good answer about how they dealt with the scam epidemic the last few years

I’m beginning to think most polling companies in the USA have serious flaws in their methodology because of changes in the last few years, and they’re not going back to in person questions.

But these are institutions now in the USA, so most people assume they know what they are doing.

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[-] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world -1 points 4 weeks ago

And yet they are still regularly wrong. Because statistics are probability, not certainty.

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this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2025
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