23
submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by sxan@midwest.social to c/factorio@lemmy.ml

Picture unrelated to question; built for style, not functionality. I've learned that the most efficient (and boring) platform design is a spear.

I think of all the planets, I like Fulgora the least. I have tried two or three approaches to dealing with the sushi belts of parts; my biggest issue is the monomanical logic of inserters, which -- given a storage chest of a dozen different items, seem to get stuck on one item for extended periods. For instance, unloading a train of random stuff, I'll get 15 inserters all pulling out gears for several minutes, ignoring everything else in the chests. It's frustrating beyond belief, so I think I'm not looking at this the right way.

The biggest issue is buffering. I'll get nothing but gears for a few hours, but then they'll dry up and I'll get nothing but low density structure for a few hours and almost no gears. If I were paranoid, I'd think the devs did this on purpose to maximize jamming.

What I'm going to try next is building a train system with per-item trains, or maybe cars, and see if that helps. Transport raw to an island, recycle it, and load up trains with product and send them to a big factory island. I suspect it's simply going to get jammed up at the recycling center and I won't be any further ahead, but maybe I can mitigate that by just having one, really long train that stops every 12 cars and every series of 12 cars has each car containing a single item.

I don't know. Fulgora just feels stupid, or makes me feel stupid. How do you folks handle Fulgora?

Update edit

I completely redesigned everything on Fulgora, and it doesn't get jammed, and I'm only having to "throw away" steel (the plate, not the girders; I'm not sure why the game calls "girders" "plate", but whatever).

My solution, as it is, is based on the suggestion of having a recycling plant rather than recycling at the miners. I'm using trains: I mine ore into trains and ship it to a recycling island, where the output is filtered into train cars - one type per car. I run the trains full of product to wherever I have factories set up, and pull specific items needed there. I avoid sushi belts and sushi boxcars; my production islands are consequently much simpler, and as yet I'm not having to waste product.

I will point out that I initially used recyclers to reduce the amounts out items, but found I had to keep changing what I was recycling because what was overflowing kept changing, and by recycling I was regularly running out of items; this, again, is related to whatever the RNG is doing to me. Honestly, I have a mind to actually keep a counter, because it appears as if I'll get a run of copper coil, where it's the dominant item mined for dozens of minutes, then it'll be blue chips, and so on, cycling through each of the items. It swamps me with one thing that I can't even manage with belt weaving, then suddenly that'll dry up and I'll get only a trickle of that thing for the next couple of hours. I've frequently had launches completely stop because I had to recycle one component to built rocket parts, and then it dries up and I have to built an assembler to produce the product until the RNG deems me worthy to have it start being a mined item again. If the cycle happened over a period of less than hours, I'd record it. Although, the fact that the inserters (almost) all get stuck on the same item pulling from sushi boxes, I could easily show. If I, of anyone else, cared enough.

In any case, with trains and enough storage boxes I have it set up to weather the droughts and floods of specific items, and am assuming either it's coded this way on purpose, or only doing it on my machine because I don't hear anyone else complaining about it.

top 17 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] jimr1603@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

My latest aha moment was "you're allowed to leave the current setup to one side and start a new design on a new pair of islands".

[-] sxan@midwest.social 1 points 10 hours ago

Hah! Sunk costs.

I just deleted everything but the electric and robot network and rebuilt it from scratch. I was able to keep and simplify my assembler island, since I am no longer filtering on that island - only taking one kind of item from fixed-type cars and sending them to where they used to go after the absurd filtering setup.

Everything is much cleaner now, and I feel better about Fulgora.

[-] jimr1603@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

I'm working out how i want to do quality at this stage - quality modules in the final product and recycle garbage, or quality modules in the initial recyclers and quality recycle base materials that are worse than uncomnon

[-] howrar@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 day ago

The ah-ha moment for me was realizing that the only thing of value that you get from recycling scrap is holmium ore.

[-] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

One trick is to make sure any overflow from the recyclers which can't get buffered is just fed into the recyclers again to be churned into, ultimately, nothing. It feels like a waste at first but the amount of scrap is basically limitless and avoiding getting blocked up is more important.

So scrap sent by train to the big factory island where it goes on a sushi belt around the recyclers. Output from the recyclers on a straight belt goes to individual sets of buffer chests for each item, and overflow from those goes back on the recyclers belt with priority. Outputs from the buffer chests feed the factory.

[-] sxan@midwest.social 1 points 9 hours ago

I used to do this - recycling into oblivion - but then I discovered that, for me, Fulgora produced floods and droughts. I'd get flooded with low density for a few hours, but then I'd go for a day or two seeing almost none, and finding myself having to actually create a low density pipeline so I could launch rockets.

It's everything. Right now, for the past few days, I've been flooded with gears. Millions of gears. But early on, when I was recycling overflow, I spent a day or two getting almost no gears, and I had to drop steel from a platform and make them. Then it did that with low density; too much, then suddenly none and I had to build plastic production. Most recently, I spent a couple days getting no coil, but at the end of yesterday, it started coming in as a flood.

I'm talking about what the raw recyclers produce. They're always producing a too much of one thing and nothing of something else for hours, then they switch to some other item. Ice was an issue for a while.

The only thing I haven't been swamped with, yet, is holium. Of course.

I think my game just has an RNG seed that's producing pathological behaviors.

[-] msfroh@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The Nilaus Master Class for Fulgora scrap recycling on YouTube explains this idea really well. Technically, I think he uses storage chests instead of buffer chests, just so that he wouldn't have to check "Request from buffer chests" on his requesters. The one exception is that he uses active providers for holmium ore to push it into an "infinite" array of buffer chests instead of relooping it. You never want to recycle holmium ore -- it's the whole reason to be on Fulgora.

My initial design for Fulgora was much less efficient, but "worked" well enough to move on to the other planets. (Fulgora was my first destination.) I was recycling into storage chests and had a big grid of buffer chests for each product. I then set up arrays of recyclers with requester chests for each product that was clogging up the scrap recycling. So, for example, I started with a bunch of gear recyclers. I used circuit conditions on the inserters to only feed those recyclers when the buffer chests were near full (but I wasn't recycling buffered stuff, only from the first stage storage chests, to keep the scrap recycling flowing).

After retooling my solution into the belt-based filtered splitter model, I managed to increase my scrap per minute from about 5k to 17k per minute. So, while the bot-based solution works, it was way more complicated and slower than the belt loop. (Also, after retooling, I think my logistic bot usage dropped from about 1500 at all times to about 180.)

Edit: Oh, another trick that I learned from the Nilaus video is the importance of "compressing" certain high volume and/or slow-to-recycle items on your return belt. Don't loop stone, turn it into landfill and loop that. Feed a couple of iron gear recyclers into an iron chest assembler (directly, no inserter required), then put the iron chests on the belt. Turn concrete into hazard concrete, then immediately recycle that (into 25% of the original concrete). Turn steel into steel chests, since they recycle so much faster. Ice and solid fuel should run through recyclers before going on the return belt since there's so much of both.

[-] jimr1603@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Scrap must flow

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 2 points 1 day ago

Yes, this exactly.

Here is an example I made https://hackertalks.com/comment/5590460

[-] Tetsuo@jlai.lu 3 points 2 days ago

This ! I suggest taking a look at the videos from this Youtuber :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAsBS2JqjEs

It helped me a lot to use this strategy.

Also his special splitter setup is super helpful.

[-] lemming@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 days ago

I'm not sure I get where your problem with inserters come from. I just sort all the outputs from scrap recyclers to their own dedicated belts or crates by filtered splitters and recyclers. All the overflow is voided by extra recyclers feeding into each other. How exactly do you get just gears for minutes?

[-] sxan@midwest.social 1 points 1 day ago

I was recycling directly from the miners, and then dumping everything into trains, shipping them to an island where I'd sort everything onto belts and into a factory complex. So offloading from the trains, I'd get sushi boxes, and for some reason, every inserter pulling from those boxes onto the belt that fed into the filter sorter set-up collectively selects the same item out of the sushi boxes for minutes at a time. So: given 18 sushi boxes off a train, (almost) every inserter would choose to pull (e.g.) blue chips for several minutes. Then they'd all start grabbing iron plate, and do that for several minutes. It's like a really broken RNG for item selection, or else it's not random at all and just works through some sequence - and they nearly all do it in lockstep.

The end result is that my sort filter field would get jammed up with something. Low density plastic. Red chips. Whatever. I'd clear it, and come back and it'd be jammed up on something else. So I sat and babysat it one day and noticed that inserter behavior. They'd start out looking random, but given long enough and they'd sync to the same item, and then stay on that item for long enough that the sushi belt would be all gears. Or fuel, or coils.

[-] Jayjader@jlai.lu 1 points 10 hours ago

If I'm not mistaken, inserters will always take from either the first or last occupied slot in a container that matches their filters. I'm not in front of my PC so I can't check, but I'm fairly certain it's not random at all. From your description of your setup (miners -> recyclers -> train) I suspect the "randomness" you're seeing is due to how the train wagon gets filled up by the recycler output - which is itself definitely random.

As another comment says, you'll need to use filters to have the inserters do a "balanced pull". If you want maximum throughput then you'll need to wire up some combinators to dynamically adjust the filters over time. If you don't care about achieving max throughput and just want to be sure you don't clog up the unloading, you only need to spread out the ten-ish scrap recycling outputs across the filters for the 6/12 inserters that interact with a given train wagon.

[-] sxan@midwest.social 2 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Huh. That makes sense.

I spent yesterday completely redesigning my Fulgora base, so I'm not having that issue anymore, but if I ever need to use sushi belts again I'll keep that in mind. It gets to be a lot of circuitry, which I avoid because at a certain complexity it disincentives changing anything, at least for me.

I get enough debugging in my day job; I don't need to be doing it in my play time, too :-)

[-] Jayjader@jlai.lu 1 points 10 hours ago

I feel you w.r.t. debugging :-)

Thankfully there's always the "brute-force" approach to the rescue; scale up and/or ship in whatever you need from a planet where it's cheap(er).

[-] sxan@midwest.social 1 points 9 hours ago

I've used that! I had a flood of low density, so for a while I was shipping it to other planets, buffering especially on Aquilo. Then it tapered off so much I couldn't launch rockets on Fulgora. ¯\(ツ)

With a redesigned pipeline, I'm in a better place; Fulgora still is hundreds of quality yellow chests and dozens of tanks for buffering, but it isn't getting jammed up anymore.

[-] lemming@sh.itjust.works 2 points 23 hours ago

I see, that's an interesting problem. I've never seen that, but now I understand what it looks like.

Are you sure the problem isn't loading the train? I assume it isn't, but just in case it is, filtering the slots of the wagons should help.

If it isn't, then my first advice would be making sure that you empty your sushi boxes faster than you fill them. If your trains carry diverse goods and are all emptied into the sushi boxes, then completely emptying the sushi boxes will provide diverse goods.

Additionally, it might be helpful to set a simple logic to change filters on the inserters emptying the sushi boxes. Setting them to Set filter and connecting to a Selector combinator set to randomly switch between one of the scrap recycling products every several ticks should provide all of the products in random, but reasonably short intervals. The throughput will be somewhat limited, but should beuch better than the current setup. Of course, if you can, you can create a more efficient logic, but that would take more than one or two combinators.

this post was submitted on 29 Jun 2025
23 points (100.0% liked)

Factorio

1932 readers
17 users here now

Dreaming of transport belts

Rules

Last updated: 2023/06/05

Useful links

Purchase

Factorio has never been on sale and will (probably) never be on sale

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS