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Sad but true (lemmy.world)
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[-] dragontamer@lemmy.world 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Wtf?

  • Premeditated Intent: Murder
  • Intent without premeditation. Heat of the moment: 2nd degree Murder
  • Doing something you weren't supposed to and killing someone: involuntary homicide
  • Failing to do something you were supposed to and killing someone: negligent manslaughter.

Who made this meme (and topic) and why is everyone so ignorant of the law? This almost certainly is vehicular manslaughter case or... If it can be suggested that it's the pedestrian maybe was partially at fault it might be negligent manslaughter (ex: failed to stop when someone jumped out).

[-] Taldan@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

In the US, deaths deaths cars are treated less harshly than deaths involving firearms. One common example used to teach about jury biases is deaths due to drunk driving. Many jury members can empathize with driving drunk because many Americans have driven after drinking, even if they were under the legal limit

IDK if you should be calling other people ignorant if you didn't even know that much

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[-] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

You can kill someone with a gun and have it be called an accident. You can also intentionally run someone down with your vehicle and have it be called vehicular homicide.

We can say "fuck cars" without false equivalencies.

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 weeks ago

To me whether this comic is being fair hinges on stuff like, how many people are being intentionally murdered with cars but the killer gets off easy because of the method? How many accidental gun deaths are prosecuted more harshly than they should be? I don't actually know the answer to these. It does seem relevant that guns are a tool designed for killing.

[-] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

When dangerous design is inherent to the system and deaths are treated as the cost of doing business on the roadways, when does it go from accidental into societial negligence?

Guns may be a tool designed for killing, but cars are certainly able to kill as well and should be treated as such. Pointing a gun at someone is dangerous. Pointing a moving car at someone is dangerous. We are gentler on car accidents because almost everyone relies on them and they are so normalized.

[-] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 weeks ago

It could even be murder, if you can prove the driver had intent/premeditation.

But to answer your questions RE: meme/law, look which comm this is in lol. Can't let logic get in the way of "car bad."

[-] BassTurd@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago

I suppose when you remove intent and literally all other context, this makes sense.

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[-] Marn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 weeks ago

This is a bad take lol. You can be charged with manslaughter if it's an accident and murder if you were trying to kill someone with your car.

Blatantly wrong takes like this just increase the cognitive dissonance between the anti car movement and everyone else.

[-] jsomae@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

Somebody (@Jhex) else posted that there is apparently research giving some creedence to this.

But I agree, this meme is death-spiral-cult level. It's for fellow anti-car folks to commiserate, but it's probably net negative overall to post memes like this since they can be easily mocked by carbrainers.

[-] psud@aussie.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago

You can be but often aren't, especially if the pedestrian or cyclist was on the road at the time

[-] LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Sure. But you know they aren't as close as this makes it. One tool was meant to take life as the primary function. The other to get someplace.

Woman falls down stairs while carrying her baby, she killed him, accident. Woman throws her baby off the balcony, she killed him, murder. Both cases the baby was killed, both sad. But they are different.

[-] nimpnin@sopuli.xyz 14 points 2 weeks ago

The difference in intent makes sense. The difference in primary function does not, killing a person with a kitchen knife is no better than with a gun.

The problem with car accidents is that it’s difficult to know the intent of a person, especially carelessness kills a lot more people via cars than via kitchen knifes, and we can’t know for sure when it was an honest mistake by the driver.

[-] logicbomb@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago

I think if you ignore the intention of the manufacturer for a moment and focus on the acts of the individual, they'll seem closer.

Both cars and guns are dangerous devices. Both can be used for intentional murder.

Both guns and cars are so dangerous that they should not ever be used carelessly. In fact, it would be the height of recklessness to use either one without constant vigilance. You could easily kill somebody.

But with guns, people generally accept that there is a wrong way to use them, and that it's your fault if you don't have trigger discipline, or if you ever point the barrel at someone without thinking.

On the other hand, the same cannot be said about cars. Just look how people react when you mention defensive driving, a system of disciplines that make driving safer for both the driver and anyone else near the road.

People are so used to getting away with driving poorly that they are willing to accept deaths rather than even hearing about safer driving habits.

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[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

TIL: the primary function of balconies is murder!

[-] NarrativeBear@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

Any tool or item can be used to take a life or cause injury.

It could be argued guns are designed for hunting, and cars are designed for travel, but both can be used to cause harm.

Hell even a shopping cart design to haul groceries can be used to harm. Relevant video in the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePmc1656EVo

[-] ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago

(Sort of a side note, but) I would argue that guns are designed to fire a projectile. That's it, nothing more. The other stuff comes in externally: What are you firing at, and why? That is what determines if you're hunting, target shooting, competing, murdering, self defensing, etc.

If you're firing a projectile at an animal for food? Hunting. At paper for practice? Target shooting. At paper for a good score compared to others? Competing. At people who aren't trying to kill you? Murdering. At people who are? Self defense. All depends on how you're using it.

[-] django@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 weeks ago

Accidental and intentional killing should both be discouraged.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 weeks ago

Discouraging accidental death is not achieved via harsh punishment. It's done through safer design and education

[-] django@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 2 weeks ago

Safe design should be done a lot more. I am actually generally not a friend of harsh punishment, but the people who design unsafe roads need to get their act together.

100% agree. Safer practices need to be everywhere. That said, I agree distracted driving should be punished harsher than non-distracted accidents, but proving such goes into robbing people of privacy further. I really don't want more monitoring systems.
Texting and driving should be harsh, running stop signs/red lights as well. But accidents of not seeing a stop sign at night are going to happen, or even a pedestrian crossing not at a crosswalk with no way to see them in the dark. Hopefully we find good solutions, but our losses won't be near 0 unfortunately for awhile

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 weeks ago

It's worse than that.

You don't generally blame someone for being shot by a random stranger.

But kill a cyclist or pedestrian by car? What did or didn't they do?!?! 🧐

[-] NarrativeBear@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Its a strange world were somehow we have been conditioned to belive travel on foot or cycling is somewhat "lesser" then travel by car.

Hopefully the notion of "Car is King" dies one day, and we build cities once again for the people living in them.

[-] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I think everyone where I live would much rather walk places. It's just that "Car is Necessary". And I live in a walkable town, can walk to grocery store, restaurants, library, hospital (although that's not the best example I guess), you name it. But unless your job is here you're driving often. And if you have young kids, you're probably driving, because they walk so slow.

[-] ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

I think if you kill somebody through negligent discharge of a firearm the charge would be manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide, not murder. And I think that if you intentionally run a person over with your car you'd get charged with murder.

[-] schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 weeks ago

no? both of them can be either an accident or murder in principle; maybe it is more common for gun killings to be murders and car killings to be accidents, but that isn't a matter of law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

also explained in comic form here: https://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=173

Let's not spread misinformation just because it helps a good cause.

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

It's not misinformation. It's explaining that if you want to off someone, proving murder with a car is much more difficult. You have reason to be driving a car. You have less reason to be brandishing a gun.

[-] NotBillMurray@lemmy.world 2 points 2 weeks ago

If you hit someone with a hammer, it's assault and you go to jail. If you drop a hammer on someone accidentally, it was an accident and nothing happens to you. See how dumb that sounds?

[-] Semester3383@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

It's mens rea, lit. "guilty mind", e.g. intent. If you take an action with the intent to cause a death, that's murder (in my state, that would specifically be malice murder). If you take an action that is likely to cause a death with reckless indifference, but not intent, that's usually something like murder in the second degree. If you cause a death through negligence or by accident, that's usually some form of manslaughter.

Most traffic accidents are negligent; people don't (...usually...) get into a car with the intent to kill someone, nor are they usually driving in a way that the know is likely to cause harm to other people. There are obvs. factors that will affect this--such as driving drunk--but causing a death is usually unintentional, and not through reckless indifference.

[-] lemmy12369@midwest.social 1 points 2 weeks ago

Cars are like tanks.. there I said it

[-] yessikg@fedia.io 0 points 2 weeks ago
[-] MajorasMaskForever@lemmy.world 1 points 2 weeks ago

I'm confused, how exactly is a size comparison of two vehicles meant to add anything to the conversation here? Size implies lethality?

A standard city bus is about twice as long as those tanks, so is a bus twice as problematic?

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 3 points 2 weeks ago

Weight matters more than size, but that’s omitted from this graphic. I suspect the tanks are much heavier.

But speed matters exponentially more than weight. (kinetic energy = 1/2 * mass * velocity squared) And I’d imagine that trucks regularly go much faster than tanks.

[-] azimir@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

The height of the impact point also matters The higher the front grill/bumper, the more lethal the impact. The current fad for high vehicles with flat front grills has significantly increased pedestrian deaths.

These vehicles are unacceptable large for public spaces. The threshold for CDL style licensing needs to be lowered to make modern trucks/SUVs require the training their design deserves. Also tax the bajesus out of them when they're in city spaces. Either they're in the neighborhood for business reasons or get out.

[-] nonentity@sh.itjust.works 0 points 2 weeks ago

Puppies and toddlers have accidents.

Vehicles have collisions.

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this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2025
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Fuck Cars

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