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[-] zombuey@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago

The scariest thing I hear time and time again from Christians is the following.

"I don't trust people who don't believe in god because they have no moral compass."

They say this in such a matter of fact way. Most people have a good understanding of right and wrong without a rule book. For many that "moral compass" is intrinsic, even instinctual. It is an evolved part of humanity that helps us operate within a society. The Christian's are saying it is a core piece of humanity that they lack and since they model their perception of others after themselves they cannot fathom that concept. They are broken humans who without a ruler/leader would be dangerously unpredictable and violent as they have no system to make good choices. This is why those same people prefer a king.

They say all that while being shitty entitled people though. And they justify it by thinking they're better than everyone else because they're "godly"

[-] zombuey@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The worst atrocities in history have been conducted by those who were convinced it was for a righteous cause. The quote goes

“With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion.”

― Steven Weinberg

[-] Chailles@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

It also kinda shows they don't really know nor care what a moral compass even is. It isn't a magical thing that lets a person know right from wrong, it's just a set of beliefs to dictate what that person believes is right and wrong. I know what principles guide me and it doesn't matter whether other people think it's flawed or inconsiderate, it is exactly what it is, a guide, a compass.

Everyone has one, it just doesn't necessarily fit within their standards.

[-] danc4498@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

I think that most Christians don’t feel that they personally need the leash, but are so pessimistic about society that they think everybody else needs the leash.

That's not an unfair assumption though. I'm atheist and I agree that without laws and regulations people would tear each other apart over dumb shit

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Which is fine because we have laws and whatnot. It really isn't even an opinion thing. The vast majority of human history we did not have anything even resembling a government and the data from dug up humans is clear. We are murder machines. No mammal kills members of its own species as much as humans do. Even in modern times the experiment has been run when places lost their police forces.

[-] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Hot take (ayy lmao) hell doesn't exists and it's just a social construct

[-] Bondrewd@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Just maybe the main issue is kind of the fact that nobody on either part of the discussion can properly read a fucking book.

Might be just my imagination playing with me, but most fucking people in the Bible were committing atrocities even despite being the main protagonists. And the ones that did not, were fucking murdered left and right.

[-] islandofcaucasus@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Which is exactly what atheists have been saying the whole time, so I'm not sure what you mean when you say that nobody on either part can properly read a book.

[-] KRAW@linux.community 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Anyone in the Bible who isn't Jesus isn't meant to be a role model. The Bible is in fact very clear about that.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago
[-] KRAW@linux.community 4 points 1 year ago

The entire (well most) Old Testament is the Jews constantly screwing up and doing terrible things while God continually face palms and fixes their mess. The whole reason Jesus is even on Earth is because there wasn't a single soul who could've been a model human being otherwise.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

That seems derived and also ignores the Patriarchs and Matriarchs of the first five books. Also the whole thing about Jesus living a perfect life is only found in one part of John right?

[-] KRAW@linux.community 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not really. All of them are portrayed as doing things that Jewish culture would view unfavorably or immoral. God isn't exactly giving a stamp of approval to each action of these figures. Pretty much any time they do anything good it is because God enabled them to do it either through miraculous acts or by instructing them.

Also Jesus is considered the son of God throughout the entire New Testament. Maybe the word "perfect" isn't used, but he is portrayed as a model human being throughout. Otherwise his sacrifice wouldn't be able to serve it's purpose.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

All of them are portrayed as doing things that Jewish culture would view unfavorably or immoral. God isn’t exactly giving a stamp of approval to each action of these figures. Pretty much any time they do anything good it is because God enabled them to do it either through miraculous acts or by instructing them.

Examples?

Also Jesus is considered the son of God throughout the entire New Testament.

Except in Mark and the Q source.

[-] KRAW@linux.community 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Examples?

Abraham, the OG benificiary of the covenant with God, lies about his wife twice. Moses kills an Egyptian. These are all things that the Commandments explicitly mark as immoral behaviors. Obviously the success the figures experienced also had nothing to do with their own ability, e.g. Moses did not part the Red Seas by himself.

Except in Mark and the Q source.

The first verse of Mark calls him the Son of God. The Q source is also a purely hypothetical book, so while it technically doesn't say Jesus is the Son of God, it also doesn't say anything at all until it is actually found.

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

The first verse of Mark calls him the Son of God.

In some versions. Not all. Additionally there are lines where it is clear that Joseph is the daddy.

[-] KRAW@linux.community 1 points 1 year ago
[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%202%3A41-52&version=GW

Is Joseph the daddy or not? I recommend the book Misquoting Jesus. He does a pretty decent job showing that the Bible editors tried to shift references to Joseph being the biological parents to being the stepfather. Which indicates strongly that the Q document didn't have that idea. It was an invention by the author of Matthew that the author of Luke and Acts liked.

[-] KRAW@linux.community 1 points 1 year ago
[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Odd. Alright Luke 2:41-52. Watch how Mary talks about Joseph as his father.

As I said very likely Q had the story without the son of god being a literal son (Aramaic the same word for son is follower) and Roman legends of children of gods were pressed into place.

The Bible is a very very human book. It contradicts itself and earlier versions of itself because people argue.

[-] Drunemeton@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Is that true!?

[-] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My bro Elijah was an absolute beast against the prophets of Baal bro teared a new one on them haha

Jael was fucking brutal dealing that fatality

And jehud was the least based Male at his time

[-] ThePac@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

I mean... That's the whole point of Christianity, right? It's not exactly refuting their beliefs.

[-] OwenEverbinde@reddthat.com 3 points 1 year ago

That's a good point. They think all people are bad people on leashes.

Though, while it may not refute their beliefs, it certainly makes an argument in favor of not allowing them to enact legislation.

[-] Saneless@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Right. Basically, Christians would totally kill you if they didn't think God would punish them

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

A while back I got to see a Buddhist Hell Garden. I remember wondering what freaken sociopath was given access to the resources to build this and why. If you haven't seen one just imagine some horrible middle ages painting that the Catholics are ashamed of made with 3D and you can walk around looking at statues getting things crammed into their ass or in a boiling pot.

This is real religion. This isn't the Disneyfied cleaned up Jesus loves the little children of the developed world.

[-] PowerPuffKat@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

I went to one in Thailand. Did you see the giant wok of lava too? Such good fun for children..

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

There are multiple ones there. The one I had the most time to see did have that. Wang Saen Suk

[-] strawberrysocial@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Curiousity got the best of me so I image searched Buddhist Hell Garden and jesus what is wrong with human beings...

[-] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Take a stroll in one if you can.

[-] Swemg@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Looks like dancers in a club x)

[-] Obi@sopuli.xyz 4 points 1 year ago

Hell is one huge, never ending rave party, confirmed.

[-] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I mean that's just one way to interpret it. Another way is that these myths are just stories of the human experience.

[-] Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

People take them seriously though, and often try to write laws based on their religion. They're not simply myths, they are more dangerous than that.

[-] Gorilladrums@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

The point I'm trying to make is that these things are open to interpretations. There are religious people who take them literally and other religious people who don't.

[-] Chickenstalker@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

From a utilitarian point of view, It Just Werks™

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this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2023
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