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submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) by Gonzako@lemmy.world to c/mildlyinfuriating@lemmy.world

This happened to me irl. They ask me to mess a bit with tarot cards and as they're leaving they tell me "You'd go think about stuff before go you out dating. All men are predators". When I ask them that sounds incredibly prejudiced they just respond with "It's in the studies". I was perfectly fine when feminism meant egalitarianism but thats is oughtright stupid vitriol that's gonna help noone.

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[-] yesman@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

In the US, of 100 rapes against girls and women reported to the police, 18 will be prosecuted.

Jeffery Epstein and his cohort abused hundreds of girls, and all anybody cares about is what powerful man might be embarrassed. Has anyone proposed or suggested anything to protect girls from rich perverts?

From the founding till 1951, raping your wife was legal in all 48 states. And that protection extended in several states beyond the federal change. Some states even made common-law husbands immune.

The Christian Bible considers rape to be a property crime. in conservative circles, girls as young as 12 are regularly married off to their rapist.

The leading cause of death for pregnant people in the US is homicide.

I think young women considering men to be a threat is pretty rational.

[-] orclev@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

It's the bit about claiming all men are a threat. That's just as wrong as claiming all black people are criminals because they have the largest proportion of incarcerations (and yes I know that's got a lot more to do with systemic racism than anything else, but that's kind of the point). Blanket statements based on gender, ethnicity, or even age are wrong even when it's a minority making a blanket statement about the majority.

When you blindly attack everyone all that does is discourage anyone from wanting to help you, even those that agree with many of your points. Making far reaching easily disprovable blanket statements is not how you go about collecting allies to try to fix societies problems.

If you feel attacked by « all men is a rapist » you’ll need to reconsider what you are

[-] orclev@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

And if you think. "All men are rapists" is a sane and reasonable statement you're definitely a misandrist and just as wrong as the misogynists.

[-] atrielienz@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Nah. Don't play the word games this way. Women and girls have to operate under the assumption that "all men" specifically because to do otherwise puts them at significant disadvantage and in significant danger. Unknown unknown - I don't know this man, or those men, but statistics say 92.1 % of sexual offenders are men and 1 in 6 women will experience rape. There's a sexual assault every 68 seconds.

So while it may seem unfair to say "all men" because obviously not all men, I have a lot of questions about how op wrote this post.

All bears aren't gonna try to eat you. There's lots of circumstance where that's not going to happen. But the question is do you assume you are in danger from every bear you run across?

The thing about the statistics for African American crime is that a lot of them are deliberately misleading and weaponized against that demographic. You acknowledge how bad of an analogy this is but I i don't really think you understand just how flawed the argument is. Rape and sexual assault are about exerting power and control. The statistic you used is an example of using statistics to exert power and control over a narrative specifically to keep the demographic in question oppressed or subjugated.

If we're strictly arguing against weaponizing statistics against a demographic I can understand. But if op is questioning a woman or women being cautious of him because they have a reasonable fear of being assaulted that's not the same thing.

Women take extra precautions as a matter of course in their daily every day lives to avoid sexual assault and worse. This is something they do both consciously and unconsciously. And still the most likely person to kill a woman is their male significant other or someone they know. Someone they probably trust.

There is a possibility that the person who told op this has trauma related to this. Maybe they lack the ability to communicate nuance. Maybe they are just an asshole. Maybe this was a specific attempt to get op specifically to leave them alone. We don't know the context.

[-] orclev@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Sure but there's a world of difference between "women need to be cautious around men" and "all men are predators". One is an unfortunate but reasonable statement while the other is a discriminatory generalization. The former could honestly just be rephrased as "people need to be cautious around strangers" and it would be just as accurate.

The problem with statistics like "There's a sexual assault every 68 seconds" is that they sound really bad but you can do essentially the exact same exercise with any sufficiently large population and come up with similarly scary sounding numbers. E.G. There's a car crash every 13 seconds.

As for the bear analogy, while I'm sure there are plenty of circumstances in which a individual bear wouldn't attack someone, as you spend more time around any given bear the likelihood of it attacking you approaches 100% even more so when taken as a population. The same does not hold true around men. There are billions of men on this planet the vast overwhelming majority of which are not a danger to women.

I don't know this man, or those men, but statistics say 92.1 % of sexual offenders are men

Just like the example of African American crime there's a lot more to this statistic. For instance is that number so high because most men don't report sexual assaults therefore skewing the number of women sexual offenders down? There are lots of complicating societal factors there. Regardless that doesn't justify the sweeping generalization that "all men are predators" or even the slightly weaker "most men are predators", as very obviously the majority are not.

[-] Avalokitesha@programming.dev -1 points 1 week ago

The same does not hold true around men.

The longer a woman lives, the more men she comes in contact with, and the statistical likelihood of meeting a dangerous man goes up.

You say "all men are predators" is discriminatory, but for a lot of women it is the only way to drive the point home to their daughters, who may hear "you have to be careful around strangers" and then let their guard down when a predator plays the long game.

Also, children are often sexually abused by family members or friends. So careful around strangers is not sufficient.

Does it suck to hear "All men are predators" if you're a good one? Sure. But at the same time, people have no issues claiming all brown guys are terrorists or illegals. Or women are gold diggers. Or whores.

Humans always generalize. It's just (white) men having been on top of the food chain in the modern society for so long that they feel things are being taken away from them when other groups demand true fairness and equal treatment.

[-] orclev@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago

Does it suck to hear "All men are predators" if you're a good one? Sure. But at the same time, people have no issues claiming all brown guys are terrorists or illegals. Or women are gold diggers. Or whores.

You literally just made my point for me. Every last one of those examples is wrong in exactly the same way. Or are you defending all of those as acceptable generalizations? You're cool with men going around saying "All women are whores" and that just being an acceptable thing?

[-] Avalokitesha@programming.dev 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

If men want women to stop having to say "All men are predators", they need to remove the survival need behind that line.

All these lines have a reason behind it, and as long as "All women are whores" gets shrugged off as locker room talk, or excused as he had a bad relationship experience, this aggressive mindset often leads to women trying to leave a relationship they're unhappy in getting harmed or killed.

If men want women to not see them all as predators they need to keep their bros in check. As well as end the toxic macho culture that regard women as owing men sex when men are nice to them or as their possession once they're in a relationship.

If a country elects someone who says "Grab them by the pussy" and there are men - "good" men - that meme this, that's not ok. Yet it happened and it's no wonder women feel threatened underneath a government like this.

It's not in the women's power to stop this. Good men need to finally start fighting the bad apples if they don't want to be mistrusted as a survival strategy.

Most men I talked to are more upset about being lumped in with the bad apples, when in reality you should be upset how your mothers, sisters, girlfriends, daughters are constantly living in fear and can't move through any space in life without preemptive measures.

[-] orclev@lemmy.world -1 points 1 week ago

Men have exactly as much power to stop this as women do. None of the things you mentioned are acceptable. I don't tolerate someone "memeing" Trumps "grab them by the pussy" remark except to paint Trump as a despicable person specifically because he made that remark (among many other reasons). Anyone trying to defend that kind of remark or shrugging off "all women are whores" as locker room talk is wrong and I would call out anyone who did so. But you also need to see how what you're doing here is essentially the same thing. Someone said "all men are predators" and then when it's pointed out that's not acceptable you try to defend it by citing the statistics for women being assaulted and then dumping all the responsibility for fixing that problem on every man.

I'm not a senator, I'm not a congressman, I'm not a judge or governor, I'm not a cop, I'm not even a manager. My ability to fix society's problems is highly limited, mostly what I can do is call out bad behaviour when I see it which is exactly what I did in this instance. Beyond that I can donate to charities that try to address these problems which I do, and vote for politicians that try to address these problems which I also do (not that it ever seems to make a difference).

[-] Avalokitesha@programming.dev 1 points 1 week ago

If you do, good on you! Most men don't.

The thing is, if men don't change, it will annoy you. But for women it may very well kill them. You're seeing the problem and understanding it, yet you blame women for trying to survive.

They don't say "All men are predators" because they want to be petty and pay men back for how they talk about women. They live by this because anything else puts them in harms way. I'm pretty sure most women would love to not have to live by that saying. Most women would love to be safe enough to abandon this. But they aren't.

And here you are, yelling at them for trying to survive and keep themselves and each other save, because it bothers you that you get associated with bad men.

I don't know, I feel like survival might be more important than someone feeling judged wrongly (even if the judgement truly is wrong).

[-] wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

The Christian Bible considers rape to be a property crime.

Got any specific verses to cite for this? It's brought up often enough, but I've rarely if ever seen the source. I have a strong feeling that's from the old testament, of which many Christians ignore the "laws" due to the events of the new testament.

Promise I'm not trying to sealion here. It's just that these are big claims that I've not seen reflected first hand in my 30 plus years in and out of Christianity.

I'm also going to softly remind everyone that the old testament writings are also foundational to Jewish faith and Islamic faith, which is consistently left out of most of these discussions of the ills of religion.

Edit: So sealioning and whataboutism, I'm on a roll!

[-] orclev@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

They're likely basing it on a verse (that I don't have handy at the moment) but it says something to the effect that if a mans wife is raped by someone he has to pay a certain amount of silver to the husband in compensation. I couldn't tell you if it was old testament or not (probably though, sounds very old testament). I think the way it's phrased was something like "if a man lays with another man's woman, he must pay him X whatever".

[-] tomcatt360@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago

Here are the verses I could find with some quick searching: Deuteronomy 22:28-29 "28 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29 Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel’s father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days." Exodus 22:16-17 "16 And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife. 17 If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins." Both of these require the rapist/seducer to marry the woman and to pay the standard dowry amount to the woman's father. The exodus verse gives the father the option to reject the marriage, which is a good addition! (IMO since the Deuteronomy version was written later, the rejection clause might have been left out in later versions of the law.) Both of these verses are from the Old Testament, which Christians mostly use for cultural context, as Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses during his ministry. Most Christians take laws that only appear in the Old Testament as historical, but no longer consider them doctrine. Also, the culture of Old Testament believers was significantly different and so applying these laws to todays Christians doesn't account for then assive cultural differences. (For example, Exodus 22:18, right after the passage above says "18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Which has been used out of its cultural context to justify actual witch hunts!) In conclusion, both versions of this historical law are considered superceded by most modern Christians.

[-] XTL@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 week ago

Not to mention the verse will be in the old testament, i.e. the non-Christian part.

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 0 points 1 week ago

So are the ten commandments. I'm ok with cherry picking. Take what reflects the best, discard the worst.

[-] tomcatt360@lemmy.zip 1 points 1 week ago

The thing is, Jesus quoted the ten commandments, and taught that they are still in effect, the same can't be said for most of the rest of the Old Testament though.

[-] macaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone -1 points 1 week ago

People like you are why dating makes me nervous. I end up scrutinizing actions that haven’t happened and make myself feel guilty for things I can’t control.

[-] Star@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 week ago

And women are nervous in dating because if they trust the wrong person, they might get raped and murdered. Unfortunately, in the reality we live in, dating can't really be carefree. With more systemic issues addressed, perhaps it can be.

[-] macaro@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 1 week ago

Go ahead and read again what I wrote. I haven’t killed anyone, don’t plan to, don’t want to, and can’t control anyone who does.

[-] fushuan@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago

Sure, but they don't know, people lie. If we put in a balance your feeling being hurt vs them being murdered and/or raped, I'd say that unfortunately it's better for now for you to feel bad.

[-] Star@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago

All men should aspire to be like you, then. We'd have a much safer world that way.

[-] Stillwater@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Get mad at the system of patriarchy that created this situation

[-] Ancalagon@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Little dick energy right here.

[-] kplaceholder@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 week ago

Ah, the old classic of deliberately misrepresenting feminist assertions in the most extreme words possible, to stoke up manufactured indignation towards women rights, and then people acting incredibly dense and disingenuous when it is cleared up for them... I see 2014 is back.

[-] Gonzako@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

The deal is that this happened to me irl. They ask me to mess a bit with tarot cards and as they're leaving they tell me "You'd go think about stuff before go you out dating. All men are predators". When I ask them that sounds incredibly prejudiced they just respond with "It's in the studies". I was perfectly fine when feminism meant egalitarianism but thats is oughtright stupid vitriol that's gonna help noone.

[-] Doomsider@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Ah yes the anti anti sexist in the wild. Look how it twists the words and jumps to bizarre conclusions.

Set yourself free and just admit you have a problem with women instead of just some women you want to pretend to disagree with.

this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2025
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