269
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 6 points 1 day ago

I'm sorry, but as an interviewer I'll never not have some form of live coding. Some people just don't know how to code. I don't mean that in some elitist, gate keepy way. I mean some people lie on resumes. If I used Excel every day (like I was an accountant) I would not take someone's word that they know how to use Excel, I'd want to see them do it.

I am fully aware that problems are harder under stress. I advocate for genuinely easy problems in coding challenges. I don't like brain teasers. I don't really even care if you finish the problem. So long as I can tell that you know how to make a computer do things you tell it in code, know how to ask questions about a problem, and make progress towards solving it -- I'm happy.

At an old job I made the mistake of not conducting a coding session of some form and we hired someone who I genuinely believe didn't know how to program. They'd ask for help on tasks very often and I'd try to guide them in the right way, but once we paired up, they just wouldn't ever type anything. After me becoming more and more clued into something being wrong and seeing no progress I finally mentioned it to my manager. I don't think he ever got fired, just shuffled around.

[-] Kurious84@lemmings.world 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

If you give live coding tests you're a moron. Here's why. Not all but many of us coders are autistic or highly functional autistic and our brain shuts down in high stress social situations with someone watching over you. Plus whiteboarding when I never fucking whiteboard anything. But get us alone in a room with a task and we'll whip your ass.

My last boss pulled this on me. I almost didn't get the job. Then I told him to assign me any project as homework. Overnight I produced a program that blew them all away. Got hired.

[-] Cratermaker@discuss.tchncs.de 20 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I can see how this could be unfair, but working as a dev sometimes does require you to be on top of things in a high stress atmosphere. For example, what if you're proposing an excellent technical solution in a meeting but some jaded older engineer is hard to convince? If you can't outline your thinking in that scenario, your solution could be discarded just because someone was louder than you. As someone who used to have performance anxiety, I believe it's generally something you can and should practice for. On the other hand, if there really isn't a need for this type of skill, it totally makes sense to avoid creating interview environments where you are filtering candidates based on it.

[-] martinb@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 1 day ago

I did stress test interviews for DevOps positions. I explicitly told them that and gave them a task and a time limit. I would watch what they did and there was nothing out of bounds as long as they were solving problems. For example, I would give them an account in cloud provider and then task them with spinning up a k8s cluster with a few basic services and make it scalable, then watch and heckle as they googled around and brought up services. The objective wasn't to complete the task though, it was too see how they approached problem solving. Good times.

[-] mxskl@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago

Great example. We do the same but to spin up a single ec2 via terraform. Checking the real familiarity with tools. This immediately filter those who lied about their experience.

[-] silasmariner@programming.dev 4 points 2 days ago

Good enough example, although I would've picked dealing with a live incident

[-] Cratermaker@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Yeah, that too! When you have some non technical manager breathing down your neck, you might have a hard time not fumbling around even if you normally could resolve the issue in no time.

That sounds fair. I hate "tests" that involve things you'd never do on the job.

[-] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 34 points 2 days ago

Our industry has no idea how to hire people. Our interview processes are almost designed to filter out obviously bad candidates while accepting that some good candidates will fail, too. Getting a specifically good candidate is almost luck.

Remember this if you're bummed about a string of rejections.

[-] blarghly@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

I mean, this is essentially all hiring processes.

The way to get actually good employees is to be the sort of place that actual good employees want to work for. Good pay, good work-life balance, good managers and company culture, work that is enjoyable and meaningful. Then, you hire through social networks. The founders start off as people who meet through informal social networks. They hire their friends. And then they ask their friends for further recommendations. The best way to know if someone is a good hire is if you have actually worked with them before. And at this point, the interview is really just hanging out, shaking hands, and having lunch before you sign some paperwork.

[-] Iteria@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 days ago

The problem with only hiring people you have met personally is that you miss out on a whole world of people who would be great to work with but had no chance of ever meeting you or your network. I agree that network recruiting is the safest route, but having diversity in your employees is great. If you only hire through your networks you'll see quickly quickly how you only get one kind of person.

I have seem this happen a lot in smaller companies. It's also the story of how I'm typically the sole woman in the department. I by happenstance happen to seed my professional network from college with a lot of men (because I accidentally picked a college that like 80% men). I'm a unicorn because many men's networks include so few women since in IT they tend to be non-traditional and/or generally excluded from younger men's social groups.

I get tapped via my network all the time. But if the company basically only does referral based hiring me and perhaps one other woman is there for the whole engineering department. It's way more balanced at 20%-30% of the department at companies that don't do this. There is some value in shotgun hiring even if it has a higher fail rate than referral hiring. Different kinds of people can bring fresh perspectives and considerations.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] bitcrafter@programming.dev 4 points 2 days ago

So in other words, focus on hiring extroverts who are great at forming social networks.

[-] blarghly@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

I mean, kind of. I wouldnt say extroverts, so much as "people with good/decent social skills". Introversion/extroversion is a sliding scale, not a dichotomy, and it refers more to your propensity to gain or lose energy from social interactions - not your ability to socialize.

While many more introverted people find socializing more difficult in general, there is no reason why they can't develop the skill.

[-] bitcrafter@programming.dev 4 points 2 days ago

Sure, but if someone is more introverted, then, even if they have amazing social skills, they will have a much harder time forming social networks with a lot of reach because it takes more energy for them to do so, whereas it is a lot easier for a more extroverted person to do this.

load more comments (5 replies)
[-] herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml 23 points 2 days ago

I think asking one simple coding question during a live interview is a great way to eliminate candidates that have obviously lied on their CVs. Nothing fancy, just a simple problem that everyone should know. But asking leet-code medium or hard problems make no sense.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

I disagree. I give live coding tests. I very much don’t want the candidate to be stressed. I provide a written and verbal description of the (simple) problem, and provide unit tests. And I talk them through it if they run into problems, but try to give them space to work it out.

I’m not sadistic. I want to see if they can write code.

The few times I skipped the live test because of practical reasons or they were “too senior” I absolutely regretted it.

[-] staircase@programming.dev 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

You seem to be disagreeing with something that isn't the main point of the article.

That you take those steps doesn't mean candidates aren't stressed, despite your intentions.

load more comments (3 replies)

Interesting. What do you think happened with those you didn't test? You think they were making stuff up or senior at their job is a far cry from senior at your job?

[-] resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Not sure. One seemed either incredibly timid or just way in above his head on simple tasks. I assigned him a bug and had already narrowed it down to a particular return code, in a particular call tree. He could have set 20 breakpoints and found the bug in five minutes. Or put unique error codes and found the bug in ten minutes.

But weeks later he was still asking questions and eventually just moved on without solving the bug or even finding the cause.

Maaaybe he would have aced the live coding test, but I doubt it. He just never seemed to "get it" and I think the live test would have reflected it.

But by "senior" i mean decades of experience. No quibbling about job titles.

[-] cole@lemdro.id 9 points 1 day ago

fully agree. we're actually reintroducing live coding interviews into our process because so many candidates made it onsite who then showed that they didn't really know how to code

[-] staircase@programming.dev 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The article isn't saying don't check, it's saying that live coding interviews are a bad measure.

[-] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 2 points 1 day ago

I don't think anyone disputes that, it's just that nobody has come up with anything better.

Take home exercises were a potentially better option (though they definitely have other big downsides) but they aren't a sensible choice in the age of AI.

Just taking people's word for it is clearly worse.

Asking to see people's open source code is unfair to people who don't have any.

The only other option I've heard - which I quite like the sound of but haven't had a chance to try - is to get candidates to do "live debugging" on a real world bug. But I expect that would draw exactly the same criticisms as live coding interviews do.

What would you do?

[-] staircase@programming.dev 1 points 47 minutes ago

You mention lots of options. Given people are varied, and you want that in a company, how about letting the candidate decide how to prove themselves? It's pretty established that it's not "fair" to stick to a single style, so why hang on to that?

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] stsquad@lemmy.ml 55 points 2 days ago

In my first interview they put me in a room with a PC with Borland C and a copy of K&R and a sheet with a simple problem to solve and some extra enhancements if I had time. They said they would be back in half an hour and left me to it. That I passed fine.

Some twenty-ish years later I was asked to write a C function to reverse a string on a white board and I failed because I'd misformatted the for loop. I don't think it was because I've become a worse C coder in the intervening years.

When I'm actually coding I'm sat with my editor configured Just So with completion, compilation and unit tests at my finger tips. My favourite coding music blasting my speakers and a handy browser window for looking up anything in unsure of. This is my most productive setting and expecting the same performance in a stressful interview setting is foolish in my opinion.

Working through problems on a white board can work well but you are looking for the problem solving approach, not an encyclopedic knowledge of regex syntax. Those same problems get immeasurably harder when explained over a phone call.

My personal preference when evaluating candidates ability to code is reading their actual production code, the break down of commits, the commit messages and the sort of unit tests they add with a feature. The interview is more focused on their soft skills, what about the work excites them and what they are looking to get out of the role.

[-] thesystemisdown@lemmy.world 16 points 2 days ago

And yet it seems that with the increased scrutiny of candidates, and somehow the expectation that code should be able to be written in a vacuum on notepad, shit just seems more progressively broken and unusable.

[-] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 9 points 2 days ago

I failed because I’d misformatted the for loop

Unlikely that you failed the interview because of a basic syntax mistake.

My personal preference when evaluating candidates ability to code is reading their actual production code

This would be a great interview method! But 99% of people are not working on open source code professionally so it doesn't really work in general.

[-] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 12 points 2 days ago

IMO this is not a helpful way to put it. They measure skill under stress. Stress may have a large effect on skill level for some people but highly unlikely that it's so large that performance is completely random.

[-] tyler@programming.dev 5 points 2 days ago

Nah, they measure memorization under stress. Can you recall that tidbit of information to solve the problem the interviewer has given you? If you never have needed to solve a problem like that then you’re shit out of luck, even though solving that problem for the first time (by whomever) definitely didn’t do it under stress in a job interview.

[-] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 5 points 2 days ago

Some bad interview questions are like that, sure. But they're supposed to be things you are very unlikely to have done before and can reasonably figure out. It's not too hard to come up with simple questions like that. (Though I will grant many people don't seem to bother.)

[-] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 2 points 1 day ago

I give live coding tests generally based on the level they claim to be at in the language. It doesn't have to be perfect as I'm more concerned with why they're doing a thing. I usually pick something fairly basic with some edge cases just to see if they mention it.

As opposed to homework, it also proves that you can at least basically work in the language in question (I've had a couple of people who got to my round but seemed to know almost nothing about a language they claimed a lot of experience in (like declaring variables and struct members wrong... seriously). We also caught someone that didn't seem to have done the homework themselves.

If the candidate makes mistakes or gives an imperfect solution, I try to gently guide them to where we need to be. I ask them to explain why they made decisions they did, any edge cases, and how to improve performance or scale it. I expect them to ask questions when something is vague (and usually something in my problem can be interpreted one or two ways for this reason) because these are things they will encounter working with stakeholders and other engineers. If they can't do that live and on-the-fly, they're probably not for us. I fully expect nerves to be a factor and account for that; we're all nervous in interviews.

[-] sobchak@programming.dev 7 points 1 day ago

People have different levels of "nerves" as others, and it kind of sounds like you may filtering out applicants on an arbitrary metric (how nervous a person may be in an interview). Don't have enough information about your process to say for sure (obviously), but it may be something to think about. Interviews can be very high-stakes for some people (such as "I may become homeless"), and not for others ("my parents are rich"). After hired, it's not necessarily as high-staked, and toy problems aren't what SEs work on day-to-day.

[-] tiredofsametab@fedia.io 3 points 1 day ago

I'm mostly making sure they didn't completely lie about being able to work in the language and can explain what and they would do, why, and how they respond to feedback. I expect people to be varying levels of nervous and that's fine. I work with people to get them focused and take the edge off as much as possible.

What I ask for usually is related to what we need to implement, but a more basic chunk of it to, for example, show that the candidate understands concurrency and can use basics in the language to do something with that (which we do frequently).

For many positions, we do not have homework and this is the only coding we get (kinda depends on role and project).

As a newer company and still technically a start-up, the boss paying the bills can decide we need to chase something else and he isn't being talked out of it. This can lead to very fast collaborative design and coding of PoCs which can be more intense than the interview. I don't like it but it is what it is. Not everything we do is nice, stable, and long-term.

I can relate to needing that job; I've been homeless, so I definitely kno the hat that pressure feels like and why nerves alone are never a deciding factor for me.

[-] oshu@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

my current company does live code design challenges instead of straigt codong exercises. seems to work well

[-] deur@feddit.nl -2 points 1 day ago

We do this crazy thing called "pair programming" and "collaboration" periodically at work. It's cute you want to claim live coding in interviews is some horror that should never have been imagined. The rest of us will enjoy having jobs.

[-] apotheotic@beehaw.org 4 points 1 day ago

Pair programming and collaboration do not at all carry the stress of an interview situation with a person you hardly know and have never worked with.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2025
269 points (96.9% liked)

Programming

21948 readers
603 users here now

Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!

Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.

Hope you enjoy the instance!

Rules

Rules

  • Follow the programming.dev instance rules
  • Keep content related to programming in some way
  • If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos

Wormhole

Follow the wormhole through a path of communities !webdev@programming.dev



founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS