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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/34873574

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[-] Filetternavn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 22 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is truly dystopian. A ruling in Springer's favor here could imply that modifying anything on a webpage, even without distribution, would constitute a copyright violation (EDIT: only for material in which the copyright holder does not grant permission for the modification; so not libre licensed projects). Screen readers for blind people could be illegal, accessibility extensions for high contrast for those visually impaired could become illegal, even just extensions that change all websites to dark mode like Dark Reader could become illegal. What constitutes modification? Would zooming in on a website become illegal? Would translating a website to a different language become illegal? Where does this end?

This needs to be shot down.

[-] nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world 7 points 3 weeks ago

Dystopian, yes

Also Fascist

Something we never want to see in German politics in particular

[-] Filetternavn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I don't see a reason to have a preference for a specific geographic region to not be influenced by fascism. Fascism should not be instituted anywhere, in any scenario. Unfortunately, it's on the rise globally, and I'd personally prefer it not be present anywhere at all, not just in an area in which it has had previous influence.

[-] nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

It's like cancer.

It's never good. But when it's already taken hold once, you want to be extra vigilant.

[-] Delusion6903@discuss.online 6 points 3 weeks ago

New ubo feature: if page does not grant permission to block ads then entire page is blocked.

When I come across a paywall that is not circumvented by simple script blocking I don't even bother to try anymore and I remove these suggestions from my feed.

[-] DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 3 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Also, wouldn't this ban also potentially kill or at the very least cripple FOSS too? And what about browser forks like LibreWolf or Icecat?

Because I could see this law overriding rights that basically all FOSS licenses grant to modify something as long as that modification, and the source code in general, is still freely available.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

AFAIK, this is unlikely to lead to a ban on ad blockers. Worst case is probably that the judgment will imply some way to deliver ads that is illegal to block.

In any case, there are exemptions for certain assistive technologies. Those might not be much affected.

[-] Zephorah@discuss.online 13 points 3 weeks ago

So much for Europe being more progressive. They’re shilling for corporate on par with the states.

[-] Auth@lemmy.world 11 points 3 weeks ago

EU please stop, you were suppose to save us from American Tech abuse not join them.

[-] deadcream@sopuli.xyz 4 points 3 weeks ago

It was never about freedom, but about restoring control of European governments over their citizens' online presence and their data, so that everything they do on the internet is subject to European laws and regulations, not American ones.

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

And much of that driven by lobbyism by the same media empires who are trying to get rid of ad blockers.

[-] SomethingBurger@jlai.lu 3 points 3 weeks ago

It's a monkey's paw situation. Sure, the EU will protect us from American tech abuse... and implement the same policies internally.

[-] Auth@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

We need an African Tech revolution. Unless their tech follows the same path, then we run to an Australian tech revolution. Asian tech is already cooked and has been for a long time.

[-] Showroom7561@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

This is grounded in the assertion that a website’s HTML/CSS is a protected computer program that an ad blocker intervenes in the in-memory execution structures (DOM, CSSOM, rendering tree), this constituting unlawful reproduction and modification.

Dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard of.

Will they make Reader Mode in browsers illegal, too?

What about "dark mode" or "resize font" when the website doesn't offer those accessibility features?

Will they make the "mute" function on browser tabs illegal, since it modifies the website author's intention to play audio upon page load?

I will continue to block ads, spyware, trackers, unwanted elements, popups, and social media links, "illegal" or not.

[-] aurelar@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 weeks ago

Time to switch back to text-only browsers.

I don't live in Germany though, so I don't have to worry about this legislation or do anything about it 😂

[-] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Germany is the biggest economy in Europe and if this somehow passes it could spill over to the EU commission in no time. The Brussels effect could then take care of the rest. Laughing off fascist laws because they do not affect you right now is exactly the reaction fascists like them want you to have so they can corner you.

[-] aurelar@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 weeks ago

I agree, you're right. I'm kind of sick of this firehose of bullshit raining down from on high. Freedom is dying in so many different contexts all at the same time.

[-] DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Plus what if this hits the US and everywhere else too? I mean, as it stands, Free Speech/Expression and Free Press are basically dead in the 'States, what's one more right to kill?

[-] Mac@mander.xyz 4 points 3 weeks ago

Next they'll say that avoiding ads by abandoning the internet on the whole is illegal and that you are legally required to watch ads x times, or for y minutes, per day.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Bah, it's only a mandatory 1439 minutes a day

[-] General_Effort@lemmy.world 3 points 3 weeks ago

Funny how this thread isn't over-run with copyright shills standing up for the poor journalists. Maybe once the law needs to be changed?

[-] jaykrown@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

You can make ad blockers illegal, but you can't actually enforce it unless you have a dystopian totalitarian government with a secret police to track down anyone using one. Does Germany have that?

[-] SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 weeks ago

Working on it

[-] jnod4@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago
[-] Guidy@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Good thing my computer isn’t in Germany. I will stop using web browsers before I disable ad blockers.

[-] Jozav@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

I buy a newspaper and black out all the advertisements. Now the government is banning black felt-tip pens?

[-] manxu@piefed.social 2 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I speak German legalese (don't ask) so I went to the actual source and read up on the decision.

The way I read it, the higher court simply stated that the Appeals court didn't consider the impact of source code to byte code transformation in their ruling, meaning they had not provided references justifying the fact they had ignored the transformation. Their contention is that there might be protected software in the byte code, and if the ad blocker modified the byte code (either directly or by modifying the source), then that would constitute a modification of code and hence run afoul of copyright protections as derivative work.

Sounds more like, "Appeals court has to do their homework" than "ad blockers illegal."

The ruling is a little painful to read, because as usual the courts are not particularly good at technical issues or controversies, so don't quote me on the exact details. In particular, they use the word Vervielfältigung a lot, which means (mass) copy, which is definitely not happening here. The way it reads, Springer simply made the case that a particular section of the ruling didn't have any reasoning or citations attached and demanded them, which I guess is fair. More billable hours for the lawyers!

[Edit: added "The way I read it, coz I am not 100% sure, as explained later.]

[-] drmoose@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

and if the ad blocker modified the byte code (either directly or by modifying the source), then that would constitute a modification of code and hence run afoul of copyright protections as derivative work.

Insanity - modifying code that runs on your machine in no way is even remotely related to copyright.

[-] Rooty@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

So basically its "we get to decide how data is processed on your hardware when we send it down the pipe". Somebody should explain server/client roles to these clowns.

[-] DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 1 points 3 weeks ago

I bet Google probably lobbied to revive this somehow.

[-] A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 1 points 3 weeks ago

Axel Springer says that ad blockers threaten its revenue generation model and frames website execution inside web browsers as a copyright violation.

This is grounded in the assertion that a website’s HTML/CSS is a protected computer program that an ad blocker intervenes in the in-memory execution structures (DOM, CSSOM, rendering tree), this constituting unlawful reproduction and modification.

This is complete bullshit thought up by people who have no idea how computers work. It's basically the failed youtube-dl DMCA takedown all over again. The (final?) ruling basically said that website owners cannot tell people how to read their websites.

BTW, Axel Springer products are the equivalent of FOX in America and they are often embroiled in lawsuits against them. Just saying.

[-] salacious_coaster@infosec.pub 0 points 3 weeks ago

I guess we shut off the fucking Internet to Germany then. 🖕🏻

[-] nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

maybe in the future a service offers a flat monthly fee to not have any ads and distributes the money to all of the content platforms that would otherwise show ads. basically it's like a little government taxing users and giving the money to the capital owning class all over again

[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Another way to subsidize a very small handful of extremely large businesses that are already richer than some countries, and outright kill small actors? Sign me up.

[-] kokesh@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

How can it be illegal? Makes no sense whatsoever.

[-] Redex68@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

I know I'm gonna get a lot of hate for this because everyone here despises ads, but I can see an argument for it. I don't know if it is legaly sound, but morally, it boils down to the fact that you are literally using a service without paying for it. The website is offering you a product and the payment is ads. If you don't want to pay for it, don't use it, otherwise you really are just stealing it (even if that "stealing" costs very little to the site). I personally use an adblocker and agree that ads on most sites are obnoxious, but I also feel like people make adblockers out to be completely black and white, which they are not.

[-] cley_faye@lemmy.world 2 points 3 weeks ago

Ads that hide the content, ads that hijack your navigation, unwanted ads that consume your bandwidth which may or may not be on a paid plan, ads that will slow down your device, increase battery usage, or plain crash the site you're trying to see, all of these are just malware. There's no excuse for malware.

For a time, adblockers had a provision to allow non intrusive ads. The mere idea is so dead that the option doesn't even make sense anymore.

[-] WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

The server is sending me data and I’m choosing what program I’m using to interpret that data. That shouldn’t be illegal, regardless of the purposes of the data.

[-] jnod4@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago

It's ilegal to photograph people in Germany but it will be fully legal to gather everything about their psyche to serve them ads

[-] mad_djinn@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

'using a service without paying for it' alright. do you want us to sign contractual agreements before visiting websites? Most companies want people to use mobile apps these days because of the legal implications of editing those apps. The ads are baked in.

it comes down to the philosophy of internet systems you ascribe to.

I'd like to see your reaction to that television patent that forces people to stand up and clap after the advertisement.

I'd like to see your reaction to me placing sticky notes on my physical screen over the advertisement's location such that I never perceive the content.

I'd like to see you kneel, subordinate human worker. Do my bidding. Watch my ads. It's the moral thing to do.

[-] Redex68@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

I'm not advocating for you being forced physically to watch ads, I'm saying that as it stands, ads are the payment method and you actively blocking them means you're not paying for what you're using. I'm not criticising people for that, I'm simply stating a fact. If everyone on the internet was to use adblockers, most of the web would die out, and first to die would be actually useful sites that provide helpful information that they invested time and money into making, such as news, review sites, etc. Perhaps the threat of adblockers itself is benefitial for the internet as it might force websites to find alternate, better payment methods, but I don't see what you could replace ads with since people won't be willing to pay a monthly subscription for every site they visit, and most people won't pay for donations if you try a donations based model.

[-] markko@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

If everyone on the internet was to use adblockers, most of the web would die out

Websites existed before internet ads came about, and while it may be true that most would die without ads I'd be happy to see them go because the vast majority of websites have no value and only exist to try and make a few bucks off ads.

Hosting for most websites these days is virtually free. For about 80% of mine I only have to pay for the domain names, and I have no desire to serve ads to my visitors under the guise of covering costs.

The alternatives are directly charging for access to a service, or providing it for free and relying on donations or payment just for extra/bonus features/content. These methods are very successful when something is actually worth paying for.

[-] devilish666@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

I wonder how much money Google bribing Germany to make it happened ?

[-] pastermil@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 weeks ago

Bribing Merz*

this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2025
57 points (98.3% liked)

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