12
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by gigachad@piefed.social to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

I wonder if this is an US/the rest thing or maybe a meat eater / vegetarian thing. For exact scientific evaluation, please tell in which groups you fit in when commenting.

When the topic is food here or also on former similar platforms there is always this guy saying "omg you can't leave your food for 30 minutes on the counter because bacteria you know" and I don't get where that sentiment comes from. Many people agree and say you will get food poisoning from that.

First of all, let me tell you I am not an idiot (at least I hope so) and I know how microbiology works - bacteria is everywhere. I don't doubt your food on the counter will get populated by bacteria, probably more than it would be in the fridge. The question is, is this bad for you?

Now, where I live (central Europe) people are not so fast with that and I wonder why this is. We have a temperate climate which could play a role, so a large portion of the year the temperature is pretty moderate, compared to let's say south US. But apart from that I don't really know.

I am a vegetarian, mostly vegan. I am pretty sure it's not a good idea to leave animal parts out of the fridge, as they are already populated with bad bacteria when you buy them. But for vegetables? Pasta, soup, lasagna? To be honest, I have no shame to leave that stuff on the counter the whole day and even take a spoon from time to time without reheating. Over night I put it of course in the fridge, and in summer when we have 35°C it's also a different thing. But in general I don't really care. I know I cannot extrapolate on humanity, only because ai never felt bad after doing this. But honestly, am I an idiot? Or are you just a bit sensitive? Do you assume everybody eats meats?

Really interested in your ideas. Don't forget to tell the region you are coming from and your diet preferences.

Thank you so much my respected lemmings and pie people

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] StickyDango@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Canadian living in Australia. Omnivore.

Kicker: Food technologist and health inspector. AMA.

Tl;dr: Doesn't matter if it's meat or veg. It goes in the fridge. Follow 2h/4h rule. Edit: Should specify certain veg are potentially hazardous as soon as you cut in to them, like leafy greens. All cooked or partially veg that should be treated like meat.

For work, I'm fairly strict in businesses because the food can go anywhere once it's in the hands on the customer, even in restaurants or at home. You can look at your dine in customers and they all look healthy, but what if they're not, or where do the leftovers go? Do they take it home after date night to share some with little Bobby or Grandma Jane? In business, you do what you can to keep the food as "clean" as you can.

At home and in food businesses, handwashing is ALWAYS a problem. Food handlers are always touching their faces, phones, hip towel they've had on all day, touching a towel they use used to wipe their hands after only rinsing hands in water in the sink, and then touching lettuce for a salad. So even at home, you can cook things to keep bacteria, but is the scoop, container, and your hands clean? Dust, pollen, flies, hairs, etc also carry microbes, and if any of them fall in to food after its been cooked, the bacteria can grow.

It also depends on the type of bacteria, too. Salmonella can infect at an extremely low dose, and Staphylococcus infects at very high doses.

I follow the 2h/4h rule for anything potentially hazardous. Of course, at home, I'm a bit more flexible, usually +/- 1h. If I make myself sick, alright, but there's no way I'm going to make anyone else sick, so if I'm making food for others, I keep to the strict rules. I'm also generally more risk adverse because the thought of anything involuntary coming out either end makes me sick just thinking about it.

I think the amount of time a food stays out is cultural, and if you grew up with it, your gut will have gotten used to the levels of bacteria. Us westerners generally get sick drinking tap water in certain countries when the locals are fine. I used to live with a Japanese lady for a year, and she knew what I did for a living. She always left rice out all night and ate it the next day. One day, she came to me with it and said "does this smell weird?" and it was a definite yes from me. I'd never leave cooked rice out that long and feel comfortable eating it.

So yeah, Bacillus cereus or whatever bacteria present may not occur all the time, but it does happen. Imagine making large batches and serving to large numbers of unrelated people.

Another thing: Cool foods within 2h to a reasonable temperature (I say 40C is fine) before putting it in the the fridge uncovered. If you put hot food in the fridge, you run the risk of warming up the foods already in the fridge.

Wash your hands.

And use a thermometer. Make sure it's clean before you use it.

Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.

[-] harmbugler@piefed.social 3 points 2 months ago

I have a thermometer with a metal probe. What's your view on how to correctly clean it?

[-] StickyDango@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

At home, I just use soap, water and a scrubber. As an additional step, I also either wipe it down with an alcohol wipe if I have any laying around, or let it sit in freshly boiled water. I'm not crazy about doing this for everything except with undercooked or raw poultry.

At work, everyone is required by law to implement a sanitising step to ensure any residual harmful microbes are destroyed... but I'd never deter anyone at home from doing this ;) I suggest properly diluted bleach (100ppm, or as per label instructions, freshly made), or quaternary ammonium compound ("quat", also diluted to either 200ppm or as per label). Otherwise, dishwasher.

[-] Whostosay@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

40C

How many football fields is that?

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 2 months ago

I've always wondered why eggs can be unrefrigerated in some countries and be safe to eat for weeks...

[-] qantravon@startrek.website 5 points 2 months ago

This has to do with how the eggs are sanitized before they're sold. In places where you need to keep them refrigerated, they've been washed in such a way that a protective layer has been removed. In countries that keep their eggs on the counter, this has not been done.

https://eggsafety.org/us-refrigerate-eggs-countries-dont/

[-] StickyDango@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Yeah, that's huge. Outbreaks are becoming more and more common. In Canada and USA, it's a requirement to keep eggs in the fridge, and we just assume chickens = Salmonella, which is also why there is such stress on washing your hands thoroughly after handling raw chicken, cut chicken on a designated poultry-only cutting board, etc.

I think some countries will do a sanitising wash, some just wash with water.

In Australia, Salmonella infections have been increasing, so it's strongly recommended to keep eggs refrigerated. It's not written in to law, but we're a little behind here on a few things. Also consider the differences in handling of eggs at a supermarket, at a farmer's market, or someone selling excess eggs outside their home.

Another thing that needs to be considered: Egg shells are porous. In a supermarket, temperatures don't fluctuate as much as it would at home or in a restaurant, so they're not going to sweat (moisture = nice spot for bacteria to grow). In restaurants and at home, if they're not in the fridge, eggs will be subject to sweating (think hot kitchen during the day, cool kitchen at night; flies, cockroaches, rodents, unclean human hands, etc.) I've seen eggs being sold out of eskies on the side of the road, and I avoid those. The Aussie sun is HOT.

[-] sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago

What is this 2h/4h rule of which you speak?

[-] StickyDango@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Good question!

The 2h/4h rule (also seen written as 2/4h rule, 2-hour/4-hour rule, etc.) is used for two things: cooling potentially hazardous foods, and potentially hazardous foods left out of temperature control.

Cooling: Foods are to be cooled from 60C to 20C within two hours, and from 20C to 4C within the following four hours. Of course most foods are cooked above 60C, which is the range where pathogenic bacteria don't grow. You want to get food from 60C to 4C within the certain time frame, otherwise it just gives bacteria some good conditions to grow well (food, no other microbes to compete with, etc.). The range of 4C-60C is called the "temperature danger zone." Foods should stay out of here as much as they can.

Food left out of temperature control is something else that many people are less stringent about, but it is also really important (think summer time bbq season). Potentially hazardous foods can be in and out of the fridge for a cumulative total of two hours (example: you take out a food item and put it back in after 5 minutes, now it has 115 minutes left. Do it again tomorrow, it now has 110 minutes, etc.). After the two hour mark up to four hours, you eat it or throw it out. Once it hits four hours, throw it. Someone used milk as good example. Milk in the fridge door goes off far faster than on a shelf. Foods on the BBQ cooked at noon should be eaten or thrown out by 4PM.

There are lots of other little details and exceptions, but this is what applies in the majority of cases. ;)

Anecdotal evidence rules! Everyone posting here is alive!
The estimated 420,000 folks who die annually from improper food and water handling refuse to post!!!
Great stuff!

[-] idiomaddict@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

…good? Shouldn’t we only take advice from those who survived their own food storage habits?

[-] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

That's an incredibly wide category. Any non-anecdotal data on how many of those deaths were people eating leftovers which they didn't immediately refrigerate?

[-] slothrop@lemmy.ca 0 points 2 months ago

Mine's anecdotal, but back in the '70s I worked with a guy who would eat the contents of an ashtray in bars, as a party trick!
When he died in his 50s, they never blamed the party trick!

[-] remon@ani.social 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

When he died in his 50s, they never blamed the party trick!

I mean, it wouldn't make sense to blame the party trick if he was like ... ran over by a car.

[-] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 0 points 2 months ago

Okay, but if our standard of evidence is "person did x and died at some point later", that would apply to every human doing absolutely anything.

[-] harmbugler@piefed.social 2 points 2 months ago

Yes but counterpoint I once didn't do something and I'm still alive.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] hansolo@lemmy.today 4 points 2 months ago

This is a thing pushed by American media. It's a Boomer-era panic over summertime picnics and somehow mayonnaise causing potato salad to immediately after 30 minutes outside a refrigerator to become fatal if consumed.

It's also the product of misunderstandings of buying meat at a supermarket, wrongly assuming that meat that is not refrigerated for more than 15 minutes will basically kill you.

Panicking about food poisoning is a moral panic about "bad parenting" and blaming people when it wasn't widely known what causes food poisoning: not washing your filthy hands, cross-contaimination, and poor hygiene overall.

I've lived in West Africa and bought and cooked and safely eaten meat that had sat on a wooden plank lightly covered in flies before I got there to buy it. I survived. Mayonnaise will outlive humanity before it molds or goes bad at room temp.

[-] quediuspayu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

I've read so many horror stories about the American healthcare system that I always imagined it was out of fear of needing medical attention.

[-] BurntWits@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago

In Newfoundland (and I’m assuming other historically fish-based economies) it was really common before refrigeration existed to split your fish (open it like a book on a drying rack) and heavily salt it to store it long term. The drying process could take days with flies swarming around before getting moved to a shack. You’d then soak the fish before cooking to extract some of the salt. It’s no longer necessary but we still do it for the tradition. I’ve eaten it many, many times and never got sick from it, and I can guarantee it was more than 30 mins between the fish dying and it being salted. Especially these days with the codfish population dwindling, it could take a couple hours sometimes to catch all your fish. We kill the fish as soon as it enters the boat so the first fish of the day could be 3+ hours before being treated at all.

That being said, food safety is still important. I’ve seen some people say it’s fine to leave stuff out for a while if you’re cooking it after because it’ll kill the bacteria when you cook it, but that’s not entirely true. I had to take some food safety courses and was considering being an inspector for a while, I can’t remember it all now but the idea was, bacteria can grow after 30 mins at room temperature and while that bacteria can die at 74°C/165°F, it can grow spores during that time that are heat resistant. You’re not gonna die from food that’s been out for 31 minutes but if you often eat food that’s been sitting out for an hour or more, eventually you might get sick. It’s a game of chance, really. I don’t worry about it too much for myself but if I’m feeding others, I try to stick to the rules. If I get sick from my own carelessness, fair enough, that’s on me. If I get someone else sick though, I’d feel awful.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago

We can agree that hot mayonaise is kinda gross though and a sign that the food was probably neglected in other ways too.

[-] theskyisfalling@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

Meat eater from the UK. I'll leave stuff out for varying amounts of time, just smell it before I eat it or have a trial spoon first.

Never had any food poisoning in my life and I have eaten some very questionable things for sure.

In my personal opinion people wildly over exaggerate stuff like this and dates on packaging. My nose knows.

[-] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 3 points 2 months ago

Vegetarian/Germany. I'll leave food on the counter too as long as I'm still planning to eat it the same day. Never had issues. If I'm planning to only eat it the next day, I'll refrigerate it.

[-] RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago

I leave food on the counter all the time, because If I'm still hungry in a little while, I don't want my food cold. I have never in my life gotten food poisoning from it.

[-] Icytrees@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

90% Vegetarian. Chicken and Fish meat only. Canada.

I used to be a chef so I follow food safety guidelines with some wiggle room, since commerical kitchen standards are supposed to protect all kinds of people in a wide variety of circumstances, while I'm fairly healthy and in control of my kitchen/storage.

I don't let food that's supposed to be hot sit at room temperature for more than 2hrs max. I keep most starchy fruit and root veggies in loose, hanging bags and berries/greens/less starchy vegetables in the fridge. I usually only buy meat if I'm using it that day, only keep leftovers in the fridge for two-to-three days, and freeze anything else.

Super basic explanation: Bacteria are on anything not sterile or on fire. Most are harmless on their own but some produce shit that makes you sick. Like botulism is caused by the toxin the bacteria produce and not the bacteria itself, and it's found on vegetables. The bacteria (if they're not endospores) die with heat but the toxin remains. And with food production all mingled, bacteria from meats can be transferred to non-meat products, too. You can even get sick from raw flour.

Cooked foods have more available sugars and nutrients for bacteria to eat, plus warmth and moisture, so it's a great environment for bacteria to break out of hibernation, make babies and poop toxins.

Leaving cooked starchy foods out in ideal bacteria party conditions isn't great, and food poisoning isn't always throwing up and shitting your guts out. Sometimes it's a slight headache or a sore throat, and it can happen days or months after the fact. Ever had a 24 flu? Unexplained weird anxiety and a tummy ache that goes away after a day? Food poisoning happens to about 1/10 people worldwide every year.

But whatever, it's about how much risk you want to take on.

[-] sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago

Based on those symptoms I get food poisoning a few times every month :/

[-] littleomid@feddit.org 1 points 2 months ago

Omnivore, European. I leave my food outside if I plan to eat it the same day, and wait till it has reached room temperature before I put it in the fridge. Most of the time we leave food in a small room we have which is slightly cooler than living room (16ish degrees in winter I think) and it stays good for as long as there is food left. I have also eaten food that was left in kitchen at room temperature for about two days, but only once or twice with highly acidic food (chili or bolognese).

As long as it smells good and looks good, it’s good. Never had food poisoning in my life.

[-] Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 1 points 2 months ago

Omnivore/Central Europe:

I am pretty special in my needs because i hate eating leftovers when they were out "too long" (where "too long" is a very random amount of time), so i normally wait until the food is room temperature; if i don't plan to eat within the next few hours it goes into the fridge pretty much instantly. But i know that this is my personal spleen and that it would be fine much longer.

Bread, any fruit, onions, potatoes, garlic and so on stay outside tho.

It's more important to make sure that your kitchen and cooking utensils are clean, and anything that was used for preparing meat doesn't get reused; and the dishes must be heated properly - that alone would mean it's probably save to stay out overnight if it's not 30°C in the kitchen in the midst of summer.

[-] Maestro@fedia.io 1 points 2 months ago

Dutch omnivore. I will sometimes leave something on the counter overnight. Usually when I made a big pan of something which I can't fit into the fridge. But it's something that will be reheated/boiled. Like a soup or stew. My wife complains about it everytime I do that though 😄

[-] sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I didn't real the post BC I'm tired but I would like to say some places i worked in NYS had food guidelines for vegetables, meats, etc., and for seafood it just said "GET REAL" in all caps and I always read it in a sarcastic voice in my head lol.

I habituality leave pizza on the counter for breakfast the next morning but that's about the exception. Everything else I try to refrigerate before going to sleep for the night. I eat mostly veggie.

[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 2 months ago

Meat eater, cooler climate in Australia.

We generally put things in the fridge but are also pretty casual about leaving things out.

There's a lot of variables that would effect my inclination to consume something that had been left out for whatever period of time.

Cooked Rice is almost a perfect growth medium for bacteria. My Mrs cooks a batch in the rice cooker, doesn't refrigerate it, but consumes it all within 36 hours. That said, it has just been boiled so you're starting with almost no bacteria.

Dairy is the worst. Letting milk get to room temperature and leaving it for a half hour or so is going to dramatically reduce it's lifetime even if you put it back in the fridge afterwards.

[-] vateso5074@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Some rice cookers have an extended "keep warm" setting where the temperature remains high enough to prevent the growth of bacteria, allowing you to start a batch in the morning and use it all day or even the next day if needed.

[-] null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 months ago

That doesn't sound right to me.

Rice is serious business in our house.

All rice cookers will switch to a "keep warm" setting after the normal cooking cycle.

I don't think it's hot enough to prevent the growth of bacteria, although I'm not sure about that.

It is hot enough for the rice to start to dry out. After a few hours it would be "tough" instead of "soft and fluffy". After 24 hours it would be inedible.

As I said we just leave it at room temperature in the rice cooker and heat it up in the microwave as necessary. The texture and taste and... toxicity I guess, is fine for 36 hours. So if you cook it this morning then use it all before tomorrow evening.

[-] Fondots@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

American/meat-eater

Bread stays out but is wrapped

Butter stays out in a butter bell (that's not a common thing in America BTW but they should be)

Some sauces and condiments and such that are packed full of salt and vinegar and such stay out

Leftovers and such go into the fridge after a few minutes to a few hours, there's not exactly a hard rule here, just kind of based on what feels right and whenever we get around to it. Overnight is too long, with few exceptions if it's been out that long we'd probably throw it out.

One exception to that is if I make stock, there's a good chance that's going to sit out for a good while to cool down. It takes a while to get a big pot of liquid down to a reasonable temperature to put in the fridge. I also figure it's been simmering for several hours, so odds are there's no bacteria alive in it, so I throw a lid on it to try to keep it that way, especially when I do it in the pressure cooker because it's basically been autoclaved at that point and it's staying in a pretty damn close to totally airtight vessel.

Most vegetables and fruits are fine out on the counter for at least a day or two, and some will last weeks or months depending on temperature, humidity, how much light they get, etc. but most of them last a lot longer in the fridge so that's where they go. Onions, garlic, potatoes, pineapples, and bananas always live outside of the fridge. Other things like apples, citrus, tomatoes, peppers may go either way depending on how fast I'm planning to use them and how much fridge space I have. Cut-up produce always goes in the fridge.

[-] baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

I am you, and most of my friends (American) are kind of grossed out by me. Lots of people live by the “expiration” date on the package, regardless of what condition the food is in. Food doesn’t just instantly convert to arsenic the moment the date passes, idiots. Many refuse to even eat leftovers. The amount of food waste is appalling.

[-] xylogx@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

From the CDC website:

“Bacteria can multiply rapidly if left at room temperature or in the "Danger Zone" between 40°F and 140°F. Never leave perishable food out for more than 2 hours (or 1 hour if exposed to temperatures above 90°F).”

https://www.cdc.gov/food-safety/prevention/index.html

[-] gigachad@piefed.social 1 points 2 months ago

Well the US guidelines don't add very much to the discussion tbh, especially meat vs. veggies. It shows however why US Americans are so sensitive about this topic.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 13 Oct 2025
12 points (100.0% liked)

Ask Lemmy

36277 readers
413 users here now

A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions


Rules: (interactive)


1) Be nice and; have funDoxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them


2) All posts must end with a '?'This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?


3) No spamPlease do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.


4) NSFW is okay, within reasonJust remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com. NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].


5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions. If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.


6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online


Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.

Partnered Communities:

Tech Support

No Stupid Questions

You Should Know

Reddit

Jokes

Ask Ouija


Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu


founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS