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An ethics question (aussie.zone)
submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone to c/nostupidquestions@lemmy.world

Hey all. Getting right to it:

Last November, a majority of my wife's family voted trump. I immediately made known my disgust and that I had no interest in maintaining relationships with any of them. My wife is equally appalled, but family is important to her and she chooses to compartmentalise it for the sake of their relationships. That's her call. Typically, her mother comes to stay at our house for an extended period as we live far away, and this year I tolerated her being here for the sake of my wife.

But now, thinking about the next visit and how bad things have gotten, I can't even stand the thought of having her in my house, let alone being in the same room as her. I really don't want her here at all, but I will again tolerate her for my wife's sake. However I think it's likely that I will make myself pretty scarce during that time.

So the ethics question is - given that I expressed my distaste after the election but still remained cordial, is it ok, ethically speaking, to become more resentful as the consequences of their actions become more apparent? Or, given that what has happened since is pretty much out of everyone's hands, am I locked in to the level of hostility I showed immediately after?

I guess the distilled version is - a person does X, I express disapproval. Is it ethical to express MORE disapproval as additional unforeseen consequences of X become apparent?

Thanks for your thoughts!

Edit to Clarify - My mother in law is not MAGA and I don't think she's enjoying any of it. She thinks we can "just not talk about it" and everything will be fine. However she has become more racist and judgemental (anti-trans etc) in recent years. Hates Joe Biden and Kamal Harris but can't or won't say why. Thanks for the responses so far and I'll try to respond, but I'm about to start work shortly.

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[-] MNByChoice@midwest.social 5 points 2 months ago

I am of the opinion that not discussing these things is an analog to the Paradox of Tolerance, if not being exactly what the Paradox is about. If we don't discuss the hatefulness, then the hateful think they are doing fine.

Attacking only causes people to "dig in". Passive aggressive actions will make you look weak.

Being cordial while also calling out instances of hate as they occur would likely be fine. Be strong and confident, but keep corrections short and to the point (Imagine correctly a 5 year old. Understanding and care, not anger, and keep things in reality.) "That didn't happen.", "Why would a criminal say that?", "Toddlers visiting basketball plays, will reduce the average height, but no one gets shorter or taller."

[-] magnetosphere@fedia.io 4 points 2 months ago

However she has become more racist and judgemental (anti-trans etc) in recent years. Hates Joe Biden and Kamal Harris but can't or won't say why.

I’m gonna guess that it’s because she watches Fox “News”, and that she can’t say why she hates Biden and Harris. She’s simply heard so much anti-Democrat rhetoric that she’s parroting it.

Ethically, the choice seems easy. While specific events may be unpredictable, the themes of hatred and authoritarianism were obvious to anyone who was genuinely paying attention during the campaign. They knowingly voted for a complete piece of shit. They voted for someone who had tried to overthrow the government when things didn’t go his way. He had already been convicted of bribery and sexual assault before the election even took place. The man is simply unfit for office.

Your level of resentment is by no means “locked in”. You have every right to be angry.

The best thing you can do is communicate. Talk with your wife. Show her your post. Don’t keep your resentment bottled up - that’s not healthy. Hopefully, the two of you can come to a solution that doesn’t harm your marriage. If her family doesn’t like it, too bad. Through their (deliberate?) ignorance, they helped create this problem in the first place.

[-] BaroqueInMind@piefed.social 3 points 2 months ago

For your spouses sake, just stfu and dont engage with her regarding politics. Ask your spouse how she wants you to be, since the mother-in-law visiting is performative for you anyways, and you love your spouse more than you are obligated to tolerate your MIL.

[-] cRazi_man@europe.pub 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Agree. I scrolled down in comments thinking I'm going to get downvoted for saying what I think. OP needs to chill. OP, is Trump going to be allowed to make you want to drive a wedge between your wife and her mother? Compartmentalise. Your wife's family is not solely responsible for what Trump has done.

I love podcasts and I will always recommend from there. This is a fantastic episode from a fantastic series..... please have a listen:

You Are Not So Smart: 306 - I Never Thought of it That Way - Mónica Guzmán (rebroadcast) - How to have more productive conversations in a highly partisan, polarized, and politicized world

Episode webpage: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2025/02/20/yanss-306-how-to-have-more-productive-conversations-in-a-highly-partisan-polarized-and-politicized-world/#more-9804

Media file: https://stitcher.simplecastaudio.com/aa9f2648-25e9-472a-af42-4e5017da38cf/episodes/ef9c85a1-9302-4085-81a4-2097001f6432/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=aa9f2648-25e9-472a-af42-4e5017da38cf&awEpisodeId=ef9c85a1-9302-4085-81a4-2097001f6432&feed=N5eKDxJI

[-] TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone 1 points 2 months ago

You could probably make the case that I need to chill, but you seem to be making a few incorrect assumptions. I have no intention of interacting with my mother in law any more than absolutely necessary, and the sole reason she may be coming to visit ever again is because I don't want to drive a wedge between my wife and her mother. I also don't hold my wife's family responsible, but by voting for him last November they all became part of the trump crowd who I collectively blame. No more, no less.

I'm definitely going to listen to that podcast. Thanks!

[-] swordgeek@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 months ago

Resentfulness is a reaction, not a position to take.

You can either say "she's not welcome" or "we agree to disagree and will not discuss it" and then stick to it. Your choice. But letting (welcoming?) her into your home and then resenting her presence is childish.

Take a stand, one way or another. If you let her come, then deal with it like an adult.

[-] RBWells@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

With my ex MIL I stay friendly because she's great in so many ways, and just act completely ignorant when she says something awful, for example:

ExMIL: I'm looking for a church but can't find one that is Christian enough.

Me: Oh, I understand. So many are just so worldly now and not at all Christ like, they don't welcome the stranger, they do that prosperity gospel nonsense, culture war bullshit instead of good works. That makes sense.

ExMIL: oh I meant they are too progressive, too loosey goosey (Paraphrasing)

Me: Huh?

Or

ExMIL: I don't understand this trans nonsense.

Me: I know, right? Who gives a fuck what someone else says they are! You say you are a boy, you are a boy, it doesn't have any effect on anyone else, I don't understand the drama around it, at all.

Basically whenever I get a chance I just intentionally misinterpret it like there is no possibility that she meant that, because nobody could possibly mean that.

[-] edible_funk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

I've tried this. It usually ends up with them thinking you're kinda dumb, which is ironic. But they almost never get the point and make the connection either way.

[-] stinerman@midwest.social 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I have a similar situation and I've landed on "my first duty is to my wife." What that means to you may be different than what it means to me, but that's where you should start IMO.

To the TL;DR question, absolutely it's ethical to be more upset as more bad things happen.

[-] WHARRGARBL@lemmy.world -1 points 2 months ago

You succinctly stated exactly my thoughts on this.

[-] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 2 points 2 months ago

If your MiL voted for Trump, then she's a filthy MAGA, stop making excuses for her. Live your normal life, yell at the news, complain loudly every time you hear another one of his inane statements, criticize loudly and often.

That's what it's like in a normal, patriotic American household. Make her live like a real American, and not in her imaginary alternative MAGA reality, and stop coddling her treason. Tell her you won't tolerate talk of treason, racism, etc. Call her out EVERY time, and tell her it's unacceptable in your house, and in YOUR America. You can say ANTHING YOU WANT, but she has to keep her treason to herself. Period, no negotiation. Freedom of Treasonous Speech does not have to exist in your house.

If she doesn't like it, she can GTFO. We should no longer tolerate any MAGA bullshitp. It's time to push back HARD, and don't stop.

[-] TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone 0 points 2 months ago

That's the dream! 🤣 But it's not the MIL I need to think about, it's my wife.

[-] HubertManne@piefed.social 1 points 2 months ago

fill your house with tons of progressive decorations. Lots of lgbt+ and such and a painting of biden above the mantel. really do it up. then have her visit as much as she likes.

[-] adespoton@lemmy.ca 1 points 2 months ago

Progressive talk radio on in the background at all times?

[-] MNByChoice@midwest.social 1 points 2 months ago

Progressive talk radio does exist and came be pretty good.

[-] Buffalox@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Put a rainbow flag in the room where she sleeps. 😋
Maybe a picture of Reagan with quotes of how Russia is the enemy, and tariffs are bad for everybody.

[-] EnsignWashout@startrek.website 1 points 2 months ago

a picture of Reagan with quotes of how Russia is the enemy, and tariffs are bad for everybody.

That's particularly good.

[-] Maeve@kbin.earth 1 points 2 months ago

Depends on how much you value your wife.

[-] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You don't have to agree with your family's politics. It's basically guaranteed a huge chunk will disagree with you on something. Just don't talk about politics with them since it upsets you so much.

It's perfectly reasonable to steer the conversation away from politics if it comes up, and if they insist, particularly at your house, be a bit more direct about not having political discussions over the dinner table.

[-] YetAnotherNerd@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 months ago

Just make sure she’s aware of the consequences of her actions. The amount of detail or tangentiality is up to you. If she’s smart she’ll STFU about it and it can be civil, if not cordial. But feel free to pull out the “I’m glad you like it when they zip tie kids” as needed.

[-] just_another_person@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

These people are guilty of crimes against humanity many times over. Crimes against the American people, war crimes, treasonous acts against the constitution...you name it.

You shouldn't feel obliged to entertain people who support that. Zero consequences for these people means zero reconciliation for their atrocious behavior.

In the wise words of Christopher Walken:

[-] LordMayor@piefed.social 1 points 2 months ago

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to avoid your MIL. I also think it’s reasonable for your wife to maintain the relationship.

Can you use her visit as excuse to take a vacation—alone or with friends—or visit your family? Given the circumstances, I think avoidance is a perfectly valid option. Get some you time if your wife is cool with it.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 2 months ago

I think any response (short of something like physical assault) is probably ethical. Think about your mental health and your wife's opinion on it too.

I hate my in-laws for similar reasons. (My wife dislikes them too.) We all have a very spoken no politics rule when we visit. This makes family gatherings more tolerable. We only see them maybe 4 or 5 times a year. We've definitely seen them less as things got worse politically. Last year we even skipped Thanksgiving with them.

[-] SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Nazism isn't really an ideology I can tolerate

[-] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

I don't think this is an ethics question, you're asking whether resentment builds or fades over time and the answer will be very specific to each person and case. That being said there's one thing I would like to point out:

a person does X, I express disapproval. Is it ethical to express MORE disapproval as additional unforeseen consequences of X become apparent?

Those weren't unforseen, that's the worst part for me, they were clearly foreseen, foretold and warned about, and I could potentially be persuaded to believe people were unaware of that the first time around, but by the second time you are obviously okay with all of it.

[-] TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone 0 points 2 months ago

I'm being a little generous with that. I agree that they knew he was a piece of shit, but I think a lot of them thought he'd just hurt the people they look down on and not them.

[-] edible_funk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Then fuck em, they're MAGAts.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

To your edit... it rather sounds like she is in fact MAGA and doesn't want to admit to the "why". there's really not very many people who were both willing to vote for trump a second time and aren't MAGA, even if they don't want to admit it.

from an ethics stand point, I'll remind you of an old german saying. "If 10 men are sitting at a table with a nazi, you have 11 nazis." You cannot look at trump and honestly conclude he's an acceptable (never mind good,) president without also agreeing with his fascist and tyrannical bullshit. if she's genuinely unhappy with the status quo, she can show it by protesting or something. Until then, she's still a trump supporter and still part of the problem, and there is zero excuse for not knowing what he was about. he said he was going to do everything that he's doing. (well. maybe not the ballroom or shitting himself, but details.)

but none of us are the ones you need to be having this conversation with. we can't decide what's right here... that's a personal decision you need to make with your wife.

[-] TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone 1 points 2 months ago

Pretty much hit the nail on the head there boss. No matter how hard I try I can't accept the ignorance excuse after what all of us have seen. Earlier this year I said to my mother in law "surely you knew at the time that you were doing the wrong thing?" She denied it. The best approach for me is to be around the MIL as little as possible. My wife knows that. It makes her sad, but she understands.

[-] Jaybird@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

It's your and your wife's home. So your rules apply. Make that agreement with your wife beforehand. So there are no fights afterwards.

Things like;

  1. She must not address you. Basically act as if the other person does not exist.
  2. The visit will be as short as reasonably possible. For longer bouts with her daughter, your wife can visit her mother.
  3. She must be humble and accept the extreme difference in views.
[-] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

She must not address you. Basically act as if the other person does not exist.

The MIL has already offered to not engage in politics, take her up on the offer. Batting away the olive branch just comes off as childish.

[-] db2@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago

That's not what olive branch means.

[-] magnetosphere@fedia.io 1 points 2 months ago

Then explain it.

What do you think "olive branch” means in this situation?

[-] db2@lemmy.world -1 points 2 months ago

It means nothing in that situation. She's not giving anything, she's demanding not to be challenged.

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Sooooo, you're letting a nazi stay in your home. Your wife is the daughter of a person who chooses to still be a nazi. If you put it in that context, does it make it clearer?

[-] AmidFuror@fedia.io 1 points 2 months ago

It's like literally handing Hitler a gun and then turning him loose in a Jewish daycare.

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 months ago

I didn't mean it as dramatic as it sounded. I meant it might help him make up his mind. But I made it sound like don't even be married to her, lol. My partner said to make her not feel comfortable, not sure what that means either.

[-] LambeauLeap@sopuli.xyz -1 points 2 months ago

Dude please please please don't let Trump ruin your marriage. Not allowing your MIL to stay for her annual visit when your wife wants her to is gonna be a big big problem

[-] BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 1 points 2 months ago

It's not ruining your marriage to insist that treason, racism, intolerance, pedophilia, etc. isn't acceptable in your home. If your wife chooses that over her marriage, then you are better off. She can live with her MAGA mother for the rest of her life.

[-] msokiovt@lemmy.today -1 points 2 months ago

I think you married into a Catholic or Christofascist family. They clearly take the Mark of the Beast by obeying the Pope at least (in historicism, we believe and show that the Pope is the Antichrist). Your wife's family clearly participated in their own demise, which is why I didn't vote nationally, and instead, voted down ballot on the state level (again, to clarify, for my state, and not nationally, as national elections are selections).

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

The mark of the beast was a reference to Nero.

Which was known by the people at that time. (Which is why when it was translated into or from Greek- I forget which version was first,) the Greek version’s number was changed to reflect the Greek pronunciation of Nero as Neron.

Daniel’s “Antichrist” was similarly understood to be about a ruler contemporary to when the book was written.

I suspect your attacks on Pope Leo are politically motivated and you’re spouting whatever bullshit sounds good to justify it.

[-] msokiovt@lemmy.today 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Nero was 616, not the trihexa, from my research on the matter. I verily feel for you, since you're trying to shift blame away from the Antichrist Beast Popes, as Vicarus Filii Dei (the Latin for "Vicar of Christ") = 666. It's clear you're taking the Mark on the right hand by obeying the Pope.

Preterism was created by the Jesuits (around the same time futurism was), and its purpose was to shift blame away from the Pope (because they knew the Pope was the Antichrist since Simon Magus started Cahtolicism, and not Peter (who was elsewhere at the time)).

[-] IIII@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago

Disclaimer: I'm not American so will never understand your culture towards politics as well.

I don't think it's fair to point at every bad thing Trump has done so far and say that's the fault of your MIL for voting for Trump. The way I see it as a non-American, Trump did say he was going to be a racist xenophobic piece of shit on his election campaign, but the media heavily downplayed this, and Trump still tricked and lied to everyone. Politics is weird like that: you can theoretically campaign on one thing but then throw everything out and do the opposite once you get elected.

Hating Kamala and Biden is a fair opinion to hold as well. I consider a vote for them as picking the lesser of the 2 evils, rather than voting on what's best for America, because both parties seemed awful to me (a non-American).

I think it's important that you try to at least understand and empathise with why your MIL voted Trump in the first place. You were very light on those details in your post, which I suspect is because you're very quick to judge someone based on who they vote for.

Maybe she really hated one policy from the democrats so voted for Trump? Maybe she bought all the lies Trump told during his campaign and regrets her vote strongly? Maybe she's a single-issue person who voted for Trump because of one policy and ignored everything else?

[-] edible_funk@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

I don't really appreciate the way this comment equivocates the openly racist adjudicated rapist accused pedophile Trump with Biden and Harris.

this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2025
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