Whenever people go, "This is fucked up. Kidnapping people."
Some asshole always replies, "Well what about what X is doing?"
Get ready.
Yes. Whataboutism is what trolls and bad faith players use to detract. Don't let them. Don't even engage. Just downvote and move on.
Two things can be messed up at once. There's hope yet for the safe release of the hostages if Israel and America are willing to cooperate and openly communicate with Hamas officials. Bombing hospitals hasn't done much to stabilize things in the region or progress talks with regards to releasing the hostages. Israel must commit to a ceasefire, and must co-operate firstly with red cross and the UN, secondly with Hamas and Hezbollah and Iran to prevent this from escalating into a war on multiple fronts. Everyone wants the hostages to be released safely.
Still sticking to the Israeli air strike story huh? Nice, makes it clear how objective you are
And even more violence could have been prevented if Hamas had cooperated and openly communicated with Israel before they attacked and took hostages. /s
I'm really curios what real Palestinians think about their government which is led by a terrorist group.
Not defending Hanas but just curious, if you were living in Gaza under seige and oppression, what would an ideal government be like from your prespective?
I personally cant rhink of any.
You’re putting yourself in other peoples’ shoes. That’s not how we judge people. Might I suggest entitlement or privilege to curb this behavior in the future?
I would say not a group based on some religious nonsense. I get all this us versus them mindset, but I personally would never follow or vote for a group that wants to eradicate people because of what god they believe in. I just can't understand this mentality and never will. This is one of the reasons I exited the church...
People tend to resort to religion when they are in dark place. Countries with high poverty levels would tend to be very religious. Its just a coping mechanism with poverty, injustice and hopelessness.
Had you been born in these conditions, you also would've been very very religious (or committed suicide otherwise). But also what if Gaza was not religious? They are still at mercy of Israel/Egypt. They can't export anything without these countries approval. They travel without their approvals, they can't invite experts to come without their approval. Its hopeless eitherway
Stop making sense. It goes against what I was told to believe.
Well, you've got a direct parallel with Fatah and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank who don't openly plot to murder civilians, so at the very least, I'd probably prefer them.
Fatah also does nothing as their people are murdered and chased out of their homes so...
I would like to think I wouldn't believe that murdering 200 civilians at a music festival is a productive response to that.
I don't know what the best response to Israel's actions in the West Bank is, but I do know that it doesn't involve intentionally murdering babies (whether or not their heads were attached to their bodies).
I mean yeah true enough. Just saying that Fatah's do nothing strategy obviously isn't working.
Sure. The point is it is not exactly an insurmountable challenge to imagine a Palestinian government that is strictly better than Hamas (unless your measurement of quality is murdering Jews).
It's not as if Hamas has been making the life of everyday Gazans very pleasant. Life isn't a paradise in the West Bank by any means, but it's certainly much better, and a huge part of that comes from the fact that the West Bank isn't lobbing rockets at Israel all the time.
The point is it is not exactly an insurmountable challenge to imagine a Palestinian government that is strictly better than Hamas (unless your measurement of quality is murdering Jews).
I mean, that's true, but what can that government do when Israel has refused peace basically continuously for almost thirty years? "Just do nothing" isn't an answer, and Palestinians have gradually had all non-violent answers taken from them.
Life isn't a paradise in the West Bank by any means, but it's certainly much better,
Until you're the one whose village is getting emptied by Israeli settlers. Or until you're the one who's getting shot down by Israeli raids.
I'm gonna take a wild guess that we apparently disagree on whether deliberately murdering babies can ever be justified, regardless of how justifiable one's anger and resentment are, and given that, I don't have much more to say.
what can that government do
They could have, you know, not murdered 1000 Israelis that has since led to thousands of dead Gazans. That would probably have been an improvement. The quality of life of the average Gazan today is noticeably worse than it was three weeks ago, and this would not be the case if Hamas had not have done what it did.
I'm done here.
I'm gonna take a wild guess that we apparently disagree on whether deliberately murdering babies can ever be justified
Nope, we don't. I'm not defending the stuff Hamas did during their attack. That's just inexcusable. I was talking more about the big picture of the conflict.
and how is that working out from them? Israel keeps taking more from their land to build illegal settlements for Israelis.
They live in an open air prison, would you be surprised if most of them support those lunatics?
They live in a city, not an open air prison.
I think they are scared shitless
50% of the people living in gaza are children. So they probably dont think much about their ideal government
What worries me is what they're learning as children. Indoctrination is a powerful and despicable tool. I heard, but cannot verify, that Hamas shows radicalizing cartoons to them. It certainly seems likely that they are influenced to see Hamas favorably.
So even if they do support Hamas, they've been brainwashed into it, and their daily reality reinforces it. This doesn't excuse anything at all but man. I just want those kids to have a peaceful life, free of hate and free from attacks. They need to be hugged and deprogrammed.
This situation has been going on for 18 years. 50% of the population doesn't know everything else in their lives. From their point of view, they are fully justified to hate Israel, without the help of any doctrine, religion or anything else - and they can do so without shame.
Gaza's children already lost. It's too late for them to experience a life without fear or not being hungry. They were raised in a vacuum and have no reference of anything else in life.
Fuck everything happening around the only ones, that really didn't have the slightest chance in life, of not living there.
I only know one and he hated Hamas or any of the other terrorist groups. He supported a single state under Israel.
He stance was most people just want to have a good job, raise their family and live in peace. Israel has shown to be successful and the Palestinians should join the success.
He lives in America now. He was able to leave and come here.
He is Muslim.
He felt Hamas, etc are there just to stir the pot to keep themselves in power.
People reach different conclusions. Some are willing to leave their homes and find peace somewhere else, while other fight back. Both will hate each other, for one to never have loyalty to their home and the other for causing more mesary.
There are no right and wrong for these two.
Palestine is unfortunately considered as a tool by the east through Iran to pressure the west by threating Israel.
The west usually leverage this pressure to bomb Palestine and gain more ground to build settlements.
After years of suffering, some palestinains would rather die defending their homeland.
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It's not like they have a choice about their government. There's no voting and hasn't been for decades.
No true Scotsman eh?
The Palestinian Authority is the government Israel allows Palestinians to have. Are you calling Israel a terrorist group?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Speaking into the camera, Schem, who looks pale, but is sitting up straight with her head held high, says she was injured and taken to Gaza, then pleads to be returned to her family.
Speaking to reporters on Tuesday in Tel Aviv, Schem’s mother urged the government and world leaders to bring her daughter back home.
Holding a picture of her daughter, Keren Scharf Schem said: “I am begging the world to bring my baby back home, she only went to a festival party to have some fun and now she is in Gaza and she is not the only one.”
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said in a statement that it had informed Schem’s family about her kidnapping last week and are keeping in touch with them at this time.
IDF spokesperson Maj. Libby Weiss told CNN on Tuesday that the release of the video was “another way by Hamas to wage a psychological war” on civilian population of Israel.
Schem was kidnapped from the Nova festival near the Gaza Strip after Hamas fighters launched a terror attack last Saturday that so far killed at least 1,400 people.
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