But you can bet we are going to keep discussing Tian'anmen Square instead of Pinochet’s dictatorship, Jeju Island massacre, Indonesian anti-communist purge, etc. It's as if the average person believes anything so long as mainstream media says it.
Maybe I'm reading wrong, but your comment seems to imply that Tian'anmen Square was mainstream media lies?
There was political violence around Tian'anmen square on june 4th 1989 yes. This cannot be denied and no one is denying this, not even the CPC. The narrative around that political violence that we hear in the west is however, riddled with lies and intentional distortion for the purpose of propaganda. Here is a great video on the subject that is fully sourced if you are interested. Some of the source links are unfortunately 404s now, I'll see if I can find the articles referenced and make a followup comment.
Edit: I have unfortunately found zero archives of the missing articles and my sleuthing skills are limited to searching the only 2 archive sites I know rn.
I did however find the wikileaks info that the telegraph article discusses
Yes Tiannenmen is pretty lied together. https://youtu.be/IqxU5RdI88M
Most USians believe there’s no censorship here while this video keeps getting removed.
That is the stance of the server that hosts this community. Make of that what you will. There's a reason most avoid it.
verifiable american propaganda is a very difficult pill for westerners to swallow; so most, like you, don't bother.
Consider watching the video and telling me what's false
Consider consistency and valuing consent. You would laugh at any western country exonerating themselves. But the narrative from a country that consistently heavily violates consent. Forcing compliance through bullying and threats. Regularly jailing and threatening journalists, while doing everything they can to opaquely control the narrative. That you accept? And no, the United States and the West aren't immune to such criticism themselves.
I believe victims, whether they are victims of the West, or victims of China, or Russia, or Ukraine, or Japan or England etc. I personally have met victims most ML deny existence of. I know of someone specifically trapped just outside of shenzhen. Who would have left the country if they could have. But their partner is uhyger and not allowed to leave or even travel. They were personally threatened by the government for even talking about it on an international platform. And that isn't even going into the friends and family their government has disappeared.
Do I believe that many in the West don't really care about what happens to those in China. Just useing it hypocritically as an attack? Absolutely. Just as most ML typically feign to care about those in Palestine or other places. So long as they can be considered victims of the West. But that doesn't mean that victims of the West or Eastern bloc don't exist. Or that I believe the groups in power when they try to scrub and whitewash their history.
But what do I know, right? I'm not a campist. Just an anarchist in their 50s.
Okay so you didn't watch the video why bother commenting?
What's stopping a re-examination of historical cover-ups? I think you answer your own question when you say: where's a good place to discuss this without going into conspiracy spirals? I mean that any time topics like this come up, people who are sincerely interested have to constantly militate against the "conspiracy theory" stigma. If you're hit with that label, you're persona non grata in academia, news media, and mainstream accounts on social media. That's what stops people. The places to discuss conspiracy adjacent topics would be alternative platforms like this, until news media slowly come around on accepting anomalies many years after the fact: Jack Ruby did have mob ties; the Saudis did seem to fund hijackers, etc.
You know that Watergate, Iran-Contra, and Iraq are settled history at this point, right? They are no longer contested by serious people. A better example might be the JFK assassination & cover-up, or better yet, ongoing events like the astroturfed Mexican “gen-z revolution” or the fake Venezuelan “narco-terrorism” the US made up in an attempt to overthrow president Maduro.
Where are good, constructive places to discuss these issues without falling into unproductive conspiracy spirals?
The fediverse, which for the most part currently isn’t run by corporations or by NGOs funded by governments or corporations. There are also a few independent, non-corporate, non-NGO investigative reporting sources. I can name a few good ones if you like. People on lemmy.ml often post articles from them.
Because it's ideologically useful for liberals to not:
thx for the read!
Wait, what is this about who beat the Nazi's?
People now think the Americans beat the nazis due to all the Hollywood propaganda.
Do they? I mean, I'm sure some people do. But some people also think shoving chili peppers up their anus is pleasurable. We don't go around saying "People now think shoving hot peppers up their ass feels good.", because while it's technically true, it's disingenuous considering how few people fit into that category.
Ok, but who did?
This graph definitively answers the question, “Does propaganda really work?”
Thanks I had never questioned that fact myself until I saw your post. I also did some googling and found the same thing on multiple articles and not only find it fascinating but also breain dead obvious.
The Red Army was responsible for 80-90% of the war effort in Europe against the Nazis, the eastern front absolutely eclipsed the western front.
Plenty of serious investigative journalism still going on around these subjects, but it won’t be openly discussed and acknowledged by every political faction and strata of society in America until after the empire falls, is replaced in its primacy by some other global power, and the ruling factions are removed from power. Look at how the British now fairly openly admit the atrocities committed by their ruling factions when they were the global superpower. It doesn’t just become acknowledged out of the goodness of the people’s hearts, it becomes undeniable.
What’s stopping a sustained, constructive public inquiry into these parallels between past cover-ups and current information control?
There is no mechanism to promote the investigation. At best there will be queries like you made for the general, and social media reactions to specific events as they unfold.
A large chunk of government, politics, and press in the USA no longer exists. There are no authorities to turn too, now or later, regardless who gains power in Washington.
Most of the Anglosphere outside the USA is in a free fall too, a few years behind, maybe 20 years.
We never trusted the media either way it goes. History is written by the winners so how do we decide what really is history or propaganda? Without time travel at the end of the day everything is subjective truths
Most of the past ones have been admitted and are out in the open. A few big ones like JFK and 9/11 remain.
Tucker Carlson did an Interesting 9/11 series recently though (no I don't endorse Tucker Carlson as a whole)
1092: Tucker, The Man And His 9/11 Documentary
The guys at Knowledge Fight went over the first part of the documentary, and my takeaway was there's nothing new, the primary person being interviewed is a well known liar, and there's a lot dishonest claims being made and not a lot of evidence being given.
So what exactly do you think is so interesting about Tucker Carlson's series? What new things did you learn about 9/11?
I searched that website for mentions of Gaza or Palestine and there seems to be no episode about it so I'm going to treat it as government propaganda.
What are you talking about? Why would something be government propaganda just because you can't find mentions of Gaza or Palestine? It's a podcast mostly about Alex Jones, not a news agency. Are you always like this?
Because that's not how people think. Not anyone.
You can study history, and if you do it right you'll see how stupid and individually directed most things are. It's all conspiracies, that's how the world has worked for millennia
One realization doesn't free your mind and make you a scholar... That's just not how humans work
Wutno. Humans are not genetically doomed to being stupid. They can learn to think analytically, they can learn about known biases and how to mitigate them. They can learn historical materialism.
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