Oh cool.
So I still program like it's the 1980s?
Makes me feel proficient. XD
Describing what they want in plain, human language is impossible for stakeholders.
'I want you to make me a Facebook-killer app with agentive AI and blockchains. Why is that so hard for you code monkeys to understand?'
Even writing an RFC for a mildly complicated feature to mostly describe it takes so many words and communication with stakeholders that it can be a full time job. Imagine an entire app.
Getting ai to do a complex problem correctly takes so much detailed explanation, it's quicker to do it myself
You can add SQL in the 70s. It was created to be human readable so business people could write sql queries themselves without programmers.
By that logic could we say the same about compilers.
Or anything above assembly.
Real programmers use punchcards.
Ironically, one of the universal things I've noticed in programmers (myself included) is that newbie coders always go through a phase of thinking "why am I writing SQL? I'll write a set of classes to write the SQL for me!" resulting in a massively overcomplicated mess that is a hundred times harder to use (and maintain) than a simple SQL statement would be. The most hilarious example of this I ever saw was when I took over a young colleague's code base and found two classes named "OR.cs" and "AND.cs". All they did was take a String as a parameter, append " OR " or " AND " to it, and return it as the output. Very forward-thinking, in case the meanings of "OR" and "AND" were ever to change in future versions of SQL.
Object Relational Mapping can be helpful when dealing with larger codebases/complex databases for simply creating a more programmatic way of interacting with your data.
I can't say it is always worth it, nor does it always make things simpler, but it can help.
Least it’s an improvement over no/low code. You can dig in and unfuck some ai code easily enough but god help you if your no code platform has a bug that only their support team can fix. Not to mention the vendor lock in and licensing costs that come with it.
Doesn’t matter if they can replace coders. If CEOs think it can, it will.
And now, it’s good enough to look like it works so the CEO can just push the problem down the road and get an instant stock inflation
And then it'll all go to shit and proper programmers will be able to charge bank to sort it out.
I don't want so spend my career un-fucking vibe code.
I want to create something fun and nice. If I wanted to clean other people's mess, I would be a janitor.
If I wanted to clean other people's mess, I would be a janitor.
I'll take your share of the slop cleanup if you don't want it. I wouldn't mind twice the slop cleanup ~~extortion~~ salary.
I hope it works like that.
I hope all those companies go bankrupt, people hiring those CEOs lose everything, and the CEOs never manage to find another job in their lives...
But that's a not bad second option.
The CEOs will get a short term boost to profits and stock price. Theyll get a massive bonus from it. Then in a few years when shit starts blowing up, they will retire before that happens with a nice compensation package, leaving the company, employeez, and stockholders up shits creek from his short sighted plan.
But the CEO will be just fine on his yacht, dont worry.
LLMs often fail at the simplest tasks. Just this week I had it fail multiple times where the solution ended up being incredibly simple and yet it couldn’t figure it out. LLMs also seem to „think“ any problem can be solved with more code, thereby making the project much harder to maintain.
LLMs won’t replace programmers anytime soon but I can see sketchy companies taking programming projects by scamming their clients through selling them work generated by LLMs. I‘ve heard multiple accounts of this already happening and similar things happened with no code solutions before.
I don't get how an MDA would translate to "no programmers needed". Maybe they meant "coders"?
But really, I feel like the people who use this phrase to pitch their product either don't know how many people actually find it difficult to break down tasks into logical components, such that a computer would be able to use,, or they're lying.
Software engineering is a mindset, a way of doing something while thinking forward (and I don’t mean just scalability), at least if you want it done with quality. Today you can’t vibe code but proofs of concept, prototypes that are in no way ready for production.
I don’t see current LLMs overcoming this soon. It appears that they’ve reached their limits without achieving general AI, which is what truly would obsolete programmers, and humans in general.
Yeah why is it always coders that are supposed to be replaced and not a whole slew of other jobs where a wrong colon won't break the whole system?
Like management or C-Suits. Fuck I'd take chatgpt as a manager any day.
Explicit programmers are needed because the general public has failed to learn programming. Hiding the complexity behind nice interfaces makes it actually more difficult to understand programming.
This comes all from programmers using programs to abstract programming away.
What if the 2030s change the approach and use AI to teach everybody how to program?
I'm afraid I cant let you do that, Dave.
You've not read the manual.
Hiding the complexity behind nice interfaces makes it actually more difficult to understand programming.
This is a very important point, that most of my colleagues with OOP background seem to miss. They build a bunch of abstractions and then say it's easy, because we have one liner in calling code, pretending that the rest of the code doesn't exist. Oh yes, it certainly exists! And needs to be maintained, too.
I find this to be a real problem with visual shaders. I know how certain mathematical formulas affect an input, but instead of just pressing the Enter key and writing it down, I now have to move blocks around, and oh no, they were nicely logically aligned, now one block is covering another block, oh noo, what a mess and the auto sort thing messes up the logical sorting completly… well too bad.
And I find that most solutions on the internet utilizing the visual editor tend to forget that previous outputs can be reused. Getting normals from already generated noise without resampling somehow becomes arcane knowledge.
Edit: words.
When growing up in the 70's "computer programmers" were assumed to be geniuses. Nowadays they are maybe one tier above fast food workers. What a world!
Nowadays they are maybe one tier above fast food workers.
:-/
Having worked both jobs, I could point to a few differences
Yeah fast food is a lot more stressful.
Every single job in my entire life I have made more money, and my workload has gotten easier. I am grateful everyday I escaped the trap. Very few do.
Well to be fair if you're a programmer in the 70s you might as well be a genius.
The most consistent and highest paying jobs I've had are replacing or fixing legacy and garbage systems. I don't think the current gen llm's are anywhere close to being able to do those jobs, and is in fact causing those jobs to have more work the more insecure, inefficient trash they generate.
Give it a few months.
Fellow tech-trash-disposal-engineer here. I've made a killing on replacing corporate anti-patterns. My career features such hits and old-time classics like:
In all of these cases, there were always better answers that maybe just cost a little bit more. AI will absolutely cause some players to train-wreck their business, all to save a buck, and we'll all be there to help clean up. Count on it.
If only this wasn't becoming the agenda of big corporations...they are dropping jobs left and right and it's scary. Robots will be doing most of our jobs sooner than later...lookup flippy bot we won't even have entry level jobs soon and the problem is we're not doing this to become more like star trek. They are doing this to add seventeen more marble gold diamond pillars to their dogs puppies houses on their 9000 acre private islands.
If ChatGPT's browser is just another chromium clone and they couldn't get their own AI to write a browser, I doubt other customers of theirs will get their shitbot to write code for them either.
After shovels were invented, we decided to dig more holes.
After hammers were invented, we needed to drive more nails.
Now that vibe coding has been invented, we are going to write more software.
No shit
And after each of these, there’s been _more _ demand for developers.
Building apps without using code is still programming, since you must create logic for the program.
Literally nothing of consequence has been built with visual, mda or no-code paradigms.
Well, have you seen what game engines have done to us?
When tools become more accessible, it mostly results in more garbage.
I'm guessing 4 out of 5 of your favorite games have been made with either unity or unreal. What an absolutely shit take.
Welcome to Programmer Humor!
This is a place where you can post jokes, memes, humor, etc. related to programming!
For sharing awful code theres also Programming Horror.
