Canada's population drops as country caps immigration (www.bbc.com)

submitted 11 hours ago by Quilotoa@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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[-] MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca 21 points 10 hours ago

Shouldn't we address why population growth is so stagnant in our population to require constant immigration to boost our population? Why are so many people having fewer and fewer children? Could it be that housing, food, everything is skyrocketing in price and yet wages haven't increased in decades?

[-] yes_this_time@lemmy.world 17 points 9 hours ago

This is definitely a contributor, but declining fertility rates isn't a new thing.

I think the largest problem is average hours worked per parent has been increasing for 60 plus years.

We need more full time jobs at 30 hours a week or so.

[-] tangonov@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 hours ago

Depends on where you are. My wife and I work 100 hours a week easy

[-] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 6 points 6 hours ago

Elizabeth Warren wrote a book about this issue 2 decades ago: The Two Income Trap.

It used to be that you could afford a mortgage on 1 income. Now you can’t even afford it on 2. The explosion of 2 income households has made it much harder to compete in the bidding wars for housing.

At the same time, homeowners (NIMBYs) go to city hall and fight tooth and nail to protect their investments by blocking new housing development. It’s this horrible cycle of ladder pulling.

[-] yes_this_time@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I haven't read, but read a brief summary. Thanks for sharing.

It felt unintuitive to me at first. Why would two incomes be more risky than a single income? But yeah if one of those two become incapicated/unable to find work.. you are screwed since you need both. Single income you essentially have a backup (assuming they can find work)

So, reduced work week would free up needed time and reduce convenience costs, but families are still exposed.

But I don't want to go back to a single income household at a societal level (doesn't sound like EW did either). Tricky.

[-] panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 3 points 5 hours ago

God I wouldn't have the energy to raise kids. I work, my wife works, and working to pay someone else to raise my kids that I only see when I finish work sounds like shit.

[-] velindora@lemmy.cafe 7 points 11 hours ago

How how do you all feel about immigration?

[-] IndridCold@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 hours ago

I'm immigration positive. I think we grow as a country and culture by inviting in other cultures.

I would like to see us do more for those seeking asylum.

I think we should try and scalp as many doctors as we can with tax breaks and other things.

I'm fine with people seeking to come to Canada for University because that helps our education system.

I would like to see more protections for those coming to Canada and basically being slave labour for those that brought them in. This is a huge problem in the South Asian community and I've known several people brought in and forced to work fucked up hours for almost zero pay under the threat of being fired and having a visa revoked. The scum doing this are usually from the same home country on permanent residence status. If discovered, these people need to have PR revoked and kicked out of the country. Luckily we were able to find these people new honest jobs but they refused to report the previous agents and employers for fear they could still retaliate.

[-] slykethephoxenix@lemmy.ca 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

What type of immigration are we talking about? A small amount from a diverse set of countries to enrich Canada with culture, new ideas and talent; or the type of mass immigration we've seen over the last 3 years that drives down wages, increases rents, and encourages cpmpanies to enrich themselves by taking advantage of them, that got so bad Canada got called out by the UN for modern day slavery?

[-] panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

I'm vehemently against TFW programs and the kind of immigration you mentioned.

We have a lot of skilled, educated people here. If you have the audacity to claim a labour shortage and not acknowledge that prices increase supply, then get fucked.

In fact, hiring immigrants for lower wages than domestic labour should be the sign that what's being done is illegal and against the interest of the people of Canada.

The fact that Tim god-damn Hortons had TFWs is disgusting.

To be clear, I don't have an issue with immigrants, or skilled workers filling jobs. I have an issue with claiming labour shortages to cut wages. Or using immigration to cut wages in the aggregate.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Student visas should be an encouraged pathway for immigration.

Give me your young, your ambitious,
Your huddled masses yearning to study and create,
The frustrated youth of your teeming shore.
Send these, the ones willing to learn how to be Canadian scientists, doctors, scholars and artists,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

[-] BCsven@lemmy.ca 12 points 9 hours ago

Its good. Its how I'm in Canada. Auto companies in 70s didn't have enough skilled machinery repair and retool workers so they reached out to recruit from the UK and Europe. So my parents came over with us kids.

My coworker was an immigrant and got his citizenship and now votes against immigration... So go figure.

People have mixed opinions.

[-] velindora@lemmy.cafe 5 points 8 hours ago

lol that last part is funny. I’ll never understand why people vote against things they took advantage of.

[-] ikidd@lemmy.world 1 points 6 hours ago

Population growth masks underlying late stage capitalism problems. If we're relying on continuously growing to cover bad short-term policy, then we should rethink that.

[-] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 3 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

It’s good to a point. You have to have the social supports to maintain a minimum standard. Letting too many people in at once and suddenly nobody has houses or doctors is not a good outcome for new or established Canadians.

Also reminder that voluntary immigration and temporarily accepting persecuted people for humanitarian reasons are different things.

[-] velindora@lemmy.cafe 1 points 7 hours ago

What about immigrants who are skilled, like nurses and doctors?

[-] puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 hours ago

Sure. That’s why we have a system that fast-tracks professions in need over those without those qualifications.

We opened the gates in COVID because businesses convinced gov’t that there was a worker shortage (e.g “nobody wants to work for as cheap as we want to pay them”) in unskilled categories like hospitality, and because our student visa requirements are so lax that they effectively allow full-time employment instead of going to school. IMO these are two areas that need policy reform.

We also have valuable people who have immigrated returning to their expatriate countries because the path to citizenship promised is taking years or decades longer than they were promised. That’s just as unacceptable to me and we have to do better to retain doctors, engineers, and other professionals from whom we could mutually benefit.

[-] assaultpotato@sh.itjust.works 8 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

Most people are in favor, a minority aren't. Population inversion should scare people more than it does, but right now the current dominant fear for people is housing costs, which immigration rates are being (very incorrectly) blamed for.

If you ask the average person, they probably would reply "immigration is fine as long as we can provide for everyone". The average left-leaning person would be more likely to drop the conditional, and the average right leaning person would say "verb the noun" and ask why we're letting immigrants take out 300k loans from banks and then leave the country with the cash[1].

It's a mixed bag, as with anywhere.

[1] this is not happening in any meaningful capacity and most immigrants can't secure any credit at all without collateral, but this is nonetheless a very real conversation I've had with a post-secondary educated semi-friend who really should know better