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submitted 1 week ago by mech@feddit.org to c/askscience@lemmy.world

I just don't get it.

According to the theory of special relativity, nothing can ever move faster than light speed.
But due to the expansion of the universe, sufficiently distant stars move away from us faster than the speed of light.
And the explanation is...that this universal speed limit doesn't apply to things that are really far away?
Please make it make sense!

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[-] VoterFrog@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Think of the universe not as objects flying apart, but as the fabric of space itself stretching. The more distance there is between two objects, the more 'new space' is generated every second, across that entire distance.

Light travels 9.461 × 10^15^ meters per year. At a certain distance (the Hubble limit), more than 9.461 × 10^15^ meters of new space is created in a year. So for stars beyond the Hubble limit, the light sent from those stars actually ends up further from us after a year than when it started. That's what "moving away from us faster than light" means.

[-] NegentropicBoy@lemmy.world 3 points 1 week ago

An analogy I recall is being on the surface of an expanding balloon.

There may be a speed limit on surface travel, but a point far away may recede faster than the travel speed limit due to expansion.

[-] LodeMike@lemmy.today -2 points 1 week ago

Oh yeah but if I say the exact same thing i get downvoted because that's "not how special relativity works"

[-] Sas@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 week ago

That is not at all the thing you said. You said two objects moving away from each other each at the speed of light in non-expanding space would be perceived by each other as going at double the speed of light which does indeed not work like that in relativity.

[-] Sims@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 week ago

nothing can ever move faster than light speed

..pr space-time 'unit' ? If max speed is defined inside spacetime, then what if space it self expands everywhere ? So the speed is a limitation of the rules governing a 'medium', but the medium it self might not have such limitations.

[contrived analogy] If you start to swim in a large and 20m tall swimming pool, you have a max speed. Imagine everything in the pool have that max speed. Now imagine that the poolwalls suddenly disappears and the water column drops. At the ground, water would make a pan-cake shape, where water moves faster on the edge than in the center. Objects would flow with the water, and still have the same max speed as before. Objects at the edges now moves at the water expansion speed + max speed. Objects relative to other objects in the pool can move away 'globally' from each other at many times the max swimming speed, while maintaining the 'local' max speed in the water.

This is horrible cosmology/physics on many levels, and I probably made someone go to, or roll over in their grave, but it was the only 'medium expanding' analogy I could come up with on the spot. Apologies for the inflicted cognitive dissonance..

[-] Paragone@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Absolutely-excellent analogizing, Hoomin: communicating the essence when many just left the wall of incomprehension!

Thanks for helping lots of people.

& let the graverollers do their thing.

d :

_ /\ _

[-] whaleross@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Adding to other answers to your question, once you've grasped how it is, here is another mindfuck for you.

Eventually the space between stars will be too big for emerging intelligent species in the far future on other planets to ever even know a starry sky. There will simply put not be any meaningful light from other stars to reach them. Their entire universe will be their star system and then nothing.

[-] UNY0N@lemmy.wtf 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

That is not what the theory of special relativity says. It says that nothing with mass can accelerate to the speed of light. This may sound pedantic, but it is quite a different statement.

Aso, the expansion of spacetime isn't much more than a "best guess" as to why we see the redshift of distant galaxies, but the truth of the matter is that we don't really understand much yet about this universe. Not really.

Speed is distance/time. But time is relative, how time progresses is not some universal constant. And it gets WAY weirder than that. Here are some links, one of Richard Freymann explaining light much better than I can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWCl7diBGos

And another about the mystery of information and time.

https://theconversation.com/is-time-a-fundamental-part-of-reality-a-quiet-revolution-in-physics-suggests-not-273841

[-] melfie@lemy.lol 2 points 1 week ago

Richard Freymann explaining light

Sounds like it’s not actually Feynman, it AI.

This isn't his voice — it's our tribute to his teaching style, created purely for education and inspiration. No impersonation intended, just deep respect for one of history's greatest teachers. 🙏

All content is created to inspire, educate, and encourage reflection. This channel follows YouTube’s monetization policies, including clear labeling of synthetic media.

[-] UNY0N@lemmy.wtf 1 points 1 week ago

Thanks, I didn't notice that. I'll pay more attention in the future.

[-] mech@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago

That YouTube video isn't Richard Feynman by the way. It's an AI voice reading a text loosely based on his work.

[-] Paragone@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/an-infinity-of-worlds

might be what you're looking-for..

VoterFrog, here, & Sims, give much better views than most articles on it, tbh, & that book also helps.

& if you want to get into Time..

Carlo Rovelli has some yt vids, including a lecture ( for us humans, not for the physicists ) on Royal Institution's channel, & his book "The Order of Time" might be of interest to you..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6rWqJhDv7M

His point that you can't measure time, but you can measure change.. seems valid.

& if "space" is actually a kind of process..

good luck, eh?

_ /\ _

[-] AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Objects beyond our cosmic event horizon are in a similar state to objects inside a black hole’s event horizon: we can describe them in hypothetical terms, but they’re effectively outside of our universe. There’s no longer any causal connection between us and them in either direction, and our relativistic frame of reference doesn’t extend to them.

[-] Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Make sure your answer comes from a cosmologist, not a cosmetologist! They sound similar, but I had to retake AST1430H Cosmology, because I consulted the wrong sources.

Don't get me started on my mathematologist friend.

[-] mech@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago

My cosmetologist told me I should get rid of my black holes before any light hits them.

[-] CmdrShepard49@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

Are you a Taurus by chance? My Astronomy teacher told me I'd be meeting someone like you today at our last reading.

[-] fujiwood@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

My Cosmetologist told me I need to realign my chakras because Mercury is in retrograde.

[-] SanctimoniousApe@lemmings.world -1 points 1 week ago

I hope you're looking for a new one that isn't so racist.

i thought it was because the expansion doesnt actually make things move... all the space between all the things is getting bigger at the same time, making it look like things are moving... in aggregate that can look like more than speed of light

[-] mech@feddit.org 0 points 1 week ago

But things are actually moving.
The movement causes light emitted from those things to redshift, like the siren of an ambulance changing its pitch when it's moving away from you. And stars we can currently still see will disappear in the future, never to be seen again, as they move outside of our observable universe, accelerating faster away from us than the light they emit.

i thought distance caused red-shift.. prolly semantics.. but ... do 2 stationary objects on an expanding plane 'move'?

[-] palordrolap@fedia.io 1 points 1 week ago

That's the thing. Nothing is actually moving, it just appears to be. Space itself is increasing in volume.

The best analogy isn't that everything's moving, it's that everything's shrinking.

If you and a friend are stood 2 metres apart and you suddenly both shrink, proportionately, to half your height, the distance between you is going to appear to have doubled, when in fact it's still 2 metres.

Universe expansion turns this on its head by the distance itself growing to 4 metres without either of you moving.

As to why this doesn't happen on local scales: gravity has a tendency to hold nearby things together. And closer still, atomic forces.

[-] LodeMike@lemmy.today 0 points 1 week ago

One object is moving speed of light in one direction. Other object is moving speed of light in opposite direction. They are moving 2 speed of light away from each other.

[-] mech@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago

Except that isn't true in special relativity.
In your example, according to special relativity, an observer on object A would see object B moving away at the speed of light.
An observer on object B would see object A moving away at the speed of light.
An observer at a point in the middle would see both object A and B moving away from them at the speed of light.
In special relativity, the speeds don't add.

this post was submitted on 02 Feb 2026
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