Germans face five years in jail for denying Israel’s right to exist (www.telegraph.co.uk)

submitted 4 weeks ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/world@lemmy.world

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Chanting ‘from the river to the sea’ would be criminalised under proposed state law

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[-] crystalmerchant@lemmy.world 12 points 4 weeks ago

Israeli people have as much right to exist as Palestinian people. So let's not genocide the Palestinians, no matter how desperately Golda Meir claimed they're not real. Israel has a right to exist =/= Israel has a right to slaughter a culture. It's not fucking hard you cunts

[-] MightEnlightenYou@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago

It is really hard if you're only able to see the world in binary choices, which seems to be a common root of issues around the world

[-] HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 8 points 4 weeks ago

If Germans are serious about "never again", it should apply to any genocidal force and/or ethnostate. Israel is both. It has no right to exist.

[-] Nomad@infosec.pub 5 points 4 weeks ago

Quite a leap from a legitimate criticism over their politicians actions to denying a whole people statehood... Maybe add some nuance to your thinking like the other comments on this thread have.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 weeks ago

International law do not prohibit merging and separating states. Because of Israel policies since it's creation and building colonies over the decade a two state solution is impossible to do. I have yet seen anybody saying how to implement a two state, politicians only say it without conviction to protect Israel goals and maintaining the status quo

[-] Nomad@infosec.pub 0 points 4 weeks ago

So you propose merging both States and creating a single governing body? What would that look like? UN coming in and both sides stop fighting? Honestly asking, sounds like an interesting idea.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago

So you propose merging both States and creating a single governing body?

Yes

What would that look like?

A one state with equal rights and a form of democracy only palestinians and israelis can decide

UN coming in and both sides stop fighting?

Not only the UN but Palestinians and Israelis themselves would form an anti terrorist force dealing with Palestinians and Israelis . Just like many countries with civil wars was able to reconciliate. If you think two population can never live together then even a two two state solution would not solve the issue since the two state would still be side by side. Modern warfare is about drones so you don't even need ground invasion to attack your neighboring country. Of course it is not easy but it makes a lot more sense then a two state solution.

[-] ptu@sopuli.xyz 0 points 4 weeks ago

I would feel the same if the Zionists had picked my country as destination and I’d live on a strip of land while everything else would be Israel.

[-] Nomad@infosec.pub 0 points 4 weeks ago

You can feel the same. And you have the right to speak out for that. Your and my feelings are not a suitable basis for international politics.

[-] ptu@sopuli.xyz 0 points 4 weeks ago

Are you deducing my point of view to a discussion of mere feelings?

In case my opinion is not worthy enough for you, check out Israel Zangwill, who was a zionist and a proponent of ”people without land, land without people” narrative, but after realising it was already inhabited turned against it.

[-] Nomad@infosec.pub 1 points 4 weeks ago

I'm saying you havesa right to your opinion and there should be no law restricting your freedom to speak it.

Also saying that power does not care about those opinions and that changing something requires more than just our opinions being spoken out publicly.

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[-] REDACTED@infosec.pub 1 points 4 weeks ago

"Genocide for thee, not for mee"

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[-] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

People who are now Israelis have a right to exist, just like everybody else.

The nation of Israel has no right to exist, same as all other nations.

Funny how racialized politics, autoritarianist tendencies and even a certain view of nation states as more important than people, did not stop when NAZI Germany was defeated and are still very much alive and acted on in Germany - the symbols such as swasticas and goose-stepping aren't displayed anymore but the fundational aspects of the NAZI view of the world, of the value of people and of the validity of the use of force to suppress ideas the powerful dislike, are still alive and well in Germany.

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[-] Iusedtobeanalien@lemmy.world 2 points 4 weeks ago

Fuck the speech police

Israel: a country so weak and pathetic it controls peoples speech.

[-] NebulaNomad@lemmy.world 1 points 4 weeks ago

The tought police will get you next

[-] Kazel@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 3 weeks ago

Hier geht keiner in den knast für sowas, sind ja keine dummen amis, die ihre bevölkerung wegsperren

[-] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 1 points 3 weeks ago

Albert Einstein's letter to the NY Times was 100% correct about Israel and Palestine. Is the German government going to trash his name too?

[-] LuigiMaoFrance@lemmy.ml 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

So called right to exist.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

And let me guess, the proposed law does not criminalize anyone saying "Between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty" (Likud'77) or denying Palestinians the right to self-determination (there is no such thing as a state's right to exist under international law, contrary to the very real right to self-determination, enshrined in the UN Charter, that Germany is a signatory to).

These jewish-supremacist idiots are fuelling anti-Semitism, while propping up a genocidal apartheid regime.

[-] redsand@infosec.pub 1 points 4 weeks ago

Are they going to make the cells out of Irony?

[-] kreskin@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

German government seems to be as shamelessly bribed and corrupt as Americas.

[-] Tattorack@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

When it comes to Israel, sort of.

Germany is making extreme over-corrections for their past. Everything related to the two world wars and the role they played in it is subject to censorship and oversight, to a degree that's almost comical if it weren't real.

[-] Doorbook@lemmy.world 0 points 4 weeks ago

The over correcting logic doesn't hold much.

From a business point of view when dealing with Israel, it doesn't take much to figure out they are blocking or limiting Palestinians business.

From a military point of view, it doesn't take much to realize how genocidal most of these technologies are.

With the US, we can attribute the support to many things, political reasons, capitalism, religious with Christian Zionists, and even blunt blackmailing. However, with Germany all these doesn't work as well.

Personally, I think German rather have Zionist there than being in Europe. Which is the ultimate solution. If Israel fail, most of these people will go back where they came from ( Poland, Russia, Germany, France, England) or immigrate to NA or SA which would be another problem no one want to deal with.

[-] Samskara@sh.itjust.works -1 points 3 weeks ago

Germany sees support for Israel‘s existence as preventing another Holocaust of the Jewish people.

In the 1950s Israel‘s economy was in shambles. So they accepted money from Germany to build their country, much of it went into buying heavy machinery from Germany.

Over time Germany and Israel cooperated militarily more. The Bundeswehr used the Uzi submachine gun for example and the Israeli Merkava tank uses German technology.

Germany also sold submarines to Israel, which are capable of launching nuclear missiles. Some of the submarines were paid for by Germany. The capability for a nuclear second strike via submarines is regarded as insurance for Israel‘s existence.

German involvement with Israel/Palestine goes back a long time. German Jews were important in the Zionist movement and founding of Israel. On the other hand the Palestinian leader Al-Husseini lived in Germany during WW2 and worked for the Nazis.

During the Cold War East Germany was among the first countries to support the PLO. West German leftist terrorists like RAF (Baader-Meinhof) cooperated with Palestinian militants and conducted several high profile operations together (e.g. Entebbe).

The Palestinian terrorist attack on the Israeli Olympic team 1972 in Munich was a major embarrassment for the German government.

business

Israel is a highly developed country. Palestine has a small economy compared to Israel. A big part of Palestinian trade goes through Israel anyway. Germany doesn’t sanction trade with Palestine in any way. As a matter of fact Germany has long supported a Palestinian state as part of a two state solution and is one of the major sources of funding for the Palestinian Authority and development projects in Palestine.

back where they came from

More than half of Israeli Jews are Mizrahi, who were expelled from Muslim and Arab countries. They can’t go back. Besides that most Israelis were born in the country.

[-] kossa@feddit.org 0 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

* proposed law, which likely won't pass.

But, true enough, the proposition is insane.

[-] marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today 0 points 3 weeks ago

Supporting any Palestinian group in Germany in public will get you arrested. All Palestinian charities are banned due to links to 'terrorism' (aka the actual government of the gaza strip which any organization would have to work with in order to do things, you know, like how all states work.)

[-] kossa@feddit.org 1 points 3 weeks ago

Supporting any Palestinian group in Germany in public will get you arrested

My auntie just visited and left 30 minutes ago. She participates basically in any Pro-Palestine protest in Frankfurt and vincinity. She was never arrested.

My father, who went to his last demonstrations some 45 years ago even participated in some Pro Palestine protests. He was not arrested.

My mother wrote to the government of Hesse like every other week to take down the Israel flag in front of the government seat, and, believe it or not, she was not arrested.

The climate around supporting Palestine in Germany is bad. Many people get arrested and that is wrong. But claims like "showing support for any Palestinian group will get you arrested" are not true (yet).

One of the big tests whether 'free speech' means something or whether Germany is a vassal state is still in the juidical system (obviously source in German). I hope once the constitutional court rules, it'll be on the right side of history.

[-] Kaligalis@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

That's just what total democracy looks like. Completely normal. In Germany, some political parties (left and right) are also banned to make sure they can't ever be elected.

[-] Jumi@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Germany is not a total democracy, whatever that's supposed to mean.

And so far there have only been three parties that have been been banned since 1945 and those are

NSDAP by the Allies in 1945 for obvious reasons
SRP in 1952 because they were a successor party of the NSDAP
KPD in 1956 because they wanted to abolish democracy in favour of a soviet system

[-] GuyIncognito@lemmy.ca 0 points 3 weeks ago

Given that Germany's democratic state supports genocide and bans anti-genocide speech, I think the KPD were probably right.

[-] Jumi@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

I'd rather have a damaged democracy than a totalitarian regime.

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[-] anon_8675309@lemmy.world 0 points 3 weeks ago

Okay Germany, but this time they might deserve some of the hate.

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this post was submitted on 27 Apr 2026

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