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[-] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 120 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The Chinese AI labs are really trying to pop the bubble, too.

How?

Well lemme ask you this. What if models 80-90% as good as Claude, with weights just thrown out there for any provider (or homelab) to host, flood the market? What if they're so dirt cheap to run, they're almost free, and don't even need Nvidia GPUs? What they need fewer resources to run with each update, instead of more?

...What if this already happened, and Big Tech is maddly lobbying to ban/censor them before people realize it, and that the "infinite scaling" thing is a big fat lie?

That's the state of things.

[-] 4am@lemmy.zip 47 points 2 weeks ago

Hyper scaling was always about cornering the computer market, It was never about providing us some vastly new and superior service.

They should be strung up. And middle management needs to return to fucking school.

It’s like Kyle Kulinski said “I’m starting to understand re-education camps now”

[-] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Hyper scaling was always about cornering the computer market, It was never about providing us some vastly new and superior service.

Exactly, its a method of taking tens of billions of dollars in capital and buying a near monopoly. No other providers can compete if the hyperscalers buy all of the hardware, driving up the prices while also selling the service at a loss.

Nobody working out of their garage with a cool idea for a better service can compete if they can't get hardware and have to charge double what the hyperscalers are charging because they can't burn capital for years.

It's a practice that should be considered illegal market manipulation, because that's what it i

e: extraneous 'completely'

[-] SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 7 points 2 weeks ago

'Dumping' is considered anti-competitive behaviour in a lot of places. This sounds a lot like that.

[-] mlg@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago

In a way it has actually.

Deepseek was big because not only did they publish the full model for everyone to use, but the MoE structure significantly brought down the hardware requirements in terms of processing power. As long as you have enough VRAM, you can run it on older hardware with no need for the latest Nvidia stuff.

Now they got v4 which many have found to be within a 10% margin of Claude and ChatGPT.

On top of that, China has cheapo VRAM GPUs available or soon to be released, like the MTT S80. Yeah it sucks as a Graphics card because the chip is behind, but you get 16Gb of GDDR6 for much cheaper than anything else.

But its not a conspiracy to fight China. The infinite scaling was just Nvidia solidifying themselves as the monopoly because they want all AI infrastructure to be dependent on them, which is why they still illegally export to China, despite an export ban attempting to reduce their potential competition.

Moore Threads (MTT) already has their own CUDA like system called MUSA, and I'm sure they'll be happy to put in proper hardware support for new stuff like Bf16 and FP8/4. It'll take a few years, but eventually China will catch up to the point where Nvidia gets shanked by cheaper hardware.

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[-] FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

It turns out that off-shoring your economy to a political rival is a really dumb thing for a capitalist to do.

[-] JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

But, but, this quarter profits.

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[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 75 points 2 weeks ago

Please, please bring the world back to sanity. I was like, literally saving up to expand my homelab when my main server went down and have been utterly slapped by prices.

[-] Dagnet@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I bought a 2x16gb DDR4 kit for my home server just before it all went to shit. Feels good (though now I want to upgrade my gaming pc and I wish I had bought a DDR5 kit too)

[-] saltesc@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah but apparently GPUs are going up again 🤣...😭

[-] BonsaiBoo@lemmy.world 23 points 2 weeks ago

China has released their first gen competition to Nvidia cards. First ones kinda suck, but they're cheap. Let them pump out a few more and they'll drive the market back down.

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[-] TeamAssimilation@infosec.pub 45 points 2 weeks ago

Crazy how USA seems unable to keep up, and it appears its best chance of maintaining hegemony is bringing China down, not improving itself. Never expected to see this shift in my lifetime.

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 39 points 2 weeks ago

Not really that crazy when you consider that the people in charge could have had a sweetheart deal with manufacturers in China, but they cut off all trade partners and all soft power channels, because they're drooling buffoons who won't accept that the US shifted to a global economy decades ago nor do they grasp how global economies work—mainly because they fired every expert under the pretense of "government waste."

All they know how to do is grift and defraud, and the chance to maintain global hegemony is long past. It's China's time, now, and they know it.

[-] stumu415@lemmy.zip 22 points 2 weeks ago

Just look at the EV's. The CEO of Ford was shocked about the quality and innovation of the Chinese cars. He's driving a Xiaomi SU7 and refuses to give it up. At least Canada is now free of the US chains and letting Chinese EV's in. The movement is unstoppable in the rest of the world. The only place resisting innovation is the US with its current regime.

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[-] favoredponcho@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 weeks ago

Also crazy that a communist country would master capitalism.

[-] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago
[-] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 16 points 2 weeks ago

Idk how people think China is communist when they have for-profit hospitals, that's like one of the biggest no-nos in communism lol.

Even the public hospitals are incentivized towards profit optimizing through over-prescription of medication (or useless stuff like homeopathy) in my experience. But last time I went through Chinese healthcare was all the way back in 2017, so things may have improved now (but I doubt it.)

[-] Azal@pawb.social 20 points 2 weeks ago

This is one of those troubles with the whole "communist" and "capitalist" things. None of them are actually truly what they say they are.

China and USSR started competing hard core on the global scale in the capitalism games, and lets be honest, look at China now and it's fully on the capitalism train while still calling communist.

But that isn't to say the US is any better on the capitalism wagon. The US is quite happy to drop capitalism if a company desires it. This is where we get our "too big to fail"s or companies that are given "loans" during the pandemic that they never have to pay back.

It's almost like the terms are a joke by the upper echelon to fuck with the rest of us.

[-] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Perhaps ideological purism was never a good idea?

…Like history suggests?


Hence my radical preference: “a la carte” economic systems. Shameless capitalism, frothing communism, anarchism, authoritarian technocracy, even theocratic systems, they all excel in certain sectors and not others. Sometimes, in nutty combinations.

So why idealize one?

A “mix” has been reality for a long time, anyway, but I think that should be embraced more explicitly. Get systems where they’re good instead of shoehorning them where they’re horrific.

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[-] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 weeks ago

People trained in Marxian economics tend to understand capitalism better than stidents of mainstream capitalist economics. China's using capitalism for what it's good for - expanding the producive force of the economy, figuring out how to make new products efficiently, and making wide variety of consumer goods. The state still retains control over the capitalist sectors throurh various means. It also owns strategic sectors like banks, etc. The state is controlled via the CCP with membership of over 10% of the pop and growing. It's an open question whether they're gonna lose control over the capitalist sector or not but so far it's subordinate to the state. In capitalist economies the state (and democracy} tend to be subordinate to capital.

[-] lechekaflan@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Maoist but in name only, as the hardcore Maoists in Mainland China and elsewhere are balking at how the country has become, a hegemony set to replace another.

[-] BarneyPiccolo@lemmings.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

It's been coming for a long time. While the rest of us have been fighting among ourselves, China stayed out of it all, and improved their country. I'm not surprised that they've emerged as a powerhouse, while we volunteered to give a lunatic the nukes.

[-] 1984@lemmy.today 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Doesnt have anything to do with fighting with ourselves. America has never invested a lot of money into its own population and environment.

[-] BarneyPiccolo@lemmings.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

A big part of that is because we blow the money on endless wars, which China doesn't do.

Add that to their good-faith commitment to invest in, and substantially improve, their country, compared to our lack of investment in our own nation, which you mentioned.

I'm just saying, we shouldn't be surprised. This is nothing new to anyone who's been paying attention for a while.

[-] 1984@lemmy.today 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Yeah and the wars are created by America many times, because its huge profits for the military industrial complex and also serves as a way to increase the American presence in countries with resources like oil.

The CIA is super good at what it does actually.

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[-] lechekaflan@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Crazy how USA seems unable to keep up

The decline started by the 70s.

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[-] mecen@lemmy.ca 33 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

But think about Samsung, SK Hynix and Micron shareholders

[-] MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I do think of them.

Guillotine

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[-] YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 27 points 2 weeks ago

I sincerely hope this fucks up the market. I hope all the other manufacturers get fucked right up their greedy fucking asses.

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[-] Peereboominc@piefed.social 20 points 2 weeks ago

I just bought 2x 8gb ddr3 for €25 so I can play games from 10+ years ago.

[-] Sektor@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

You can try games from 20 or even 30 years ago. Plenty of bangers in any genre.

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[-] spacegoat@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The West is its own enemy. Not only are our oligarchs against us, they are dimwitted and don’t plan ahead for anything but earnings reports.

[-] wookiepedia@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

THIS QUARTER'S earnings reports. sigh

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[-] sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 weeks ago

Thank you China

[-] el_eh_chase@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 2 weeks ago

Semi related note: Is there any reason not to buy the cheaper SSD brands like kingspec and team group?

[-] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

YMMV.

You gotta look up reviews. Both buyer track records, and focused reviews that look at what controller/NAND they use.

Many SSDs are basically the same as other brands internally. A few are wonky. It just depends.

[-] UninvestedCuriosity@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

It depends on the use case. I use teamgroup high capacity SSD drives for short load things on my homelab but they are super slow for any kind of extended writing due to a number of factors such as cache writes. I had to warranty two of 5 that died within a few weeks but it has been fine once the duds were replaced and they were easy about honoring the warranty.

Again, fine for a homelab but I wouldn't use them in my gaming rig where speed matters. For things like readimg of stored video and Linux isos, they work pretty good.

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[-] 0ops@piefed.zip 11 points 2 weeks ago

I hope somebody starts to pick up demand for NVME drives too 🤞

[-] Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 2 weeks ago

Memory includes SSDs. NAND flash chips for storage + small DRAM cache.

[-] minpraew@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

Please please I'm begging

[-] rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

"Is for me? 👉👈"
~ AI

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[-] BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Why aren't data centers buying up all this RAM too?

[-] echodot@feddit.uk 13 points 2 weeks ago

I'm guessing because China isn't producing the type of RAM they want. Put it this way, when the AI bubble bursts we aren't going to have a load of RAM and GPUs suddenly available, because the AI data centre versions aren't in a format that's useful in consumer tech, or even all the data centre systems. They are optimised towards AI workloads and don't really work in normal computer systems. Equally that means that if the RAM that's been produced isn't in this AI workload optimised format, then the data centres can't use it.

The crime isn't that the AI data centres we're using a bolt of the RAM, it was that the manufacturers were letting them by producing all their RAM in the required format.

[-] foodandart@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 weeks ago
[-] sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 weeks ago

I have some old Tupperware I could spare.

[-] auzy1@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

Tupperware went bankrupt I heard. I'd be cautious with this as there is likely no support for this storage

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[-] eletes@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 weeks ago

Obviously this is good for RAM prices but does the NAND part affect SSD prices as well?

I'd skip spinning platters if I could get 4 TB of SSD for vheapt

[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Except maybe in America if MAGA dreams up some tariffs because Freedom (Chinese EVs have entered the chat).

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this post was submitted on 22 May 2026
311 points (99.4% liked)

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