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Rule of 400 (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
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[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 18 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Posting this at top level since its burried in replies:

Fact time. You don't always die when shot, and the US is a baby factory. I can't find good stats on non-lethal gunshot, so I'll do the rest.

Verdict: Pretty accurate.

  • 8.4% without health insurance (33 in 400)
  • 11.5% poverty rate (46 in 400)
  • 20% adults at or below literacy level 1 (80 in 400)
  • 57% mental illness untreated (228 in 400) (requires math from NIH source)

References:

[-] rallatsc@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 year ago

Btw your 20% figure includes those at Level 1 literacy, only 8% are below level 1 (from your source)

[-] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

What is level 1 defined as?

[-] _dev_null@lemmy.zxcvn.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

Best I could find:

People with Level 1 Literacy can:

  • Locate one piece of information in a sports article

  • Locate the expiration date on a driver’s license

  • Total a bank deposit entry

People with Level 2 Literacy can:

  • Interpret appliance warranty instructions

  • Locate an intersection on a street map

  • Calculate postage and fees when using certified mail

People with Level 3 Literacy can:

  • Write a brief letter to explain a credit card billing error

  • Use a bus schedule to choose the correct bus to take to get to work on time

  • Determine the discount on a car insurance bill if paid in full within 15 days

People with Level 4 Literacy can:

  • Explain the difference between two types of benefits at work

  • Calculate the correct change when given prices on a menu

People with Level 5 Literacy can:

  • Compare and summarize different approaches lawyers use during a trial

  • Use information in a table to compare two credit cards and explain the differences

  • Compute the cost to carpet a room in a house

[-] szczuroarturo@programming.dev 5 points 1 year ago

A lot of them seem to be mathematical questions

[-] Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 year ago

Damn, I’m fairly dumb but I think I could put this on my resume, I’m a lot higher in literacy than I expected.

[-] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago

i can't interpret warranty instructions, but I've done the credit card thing. I also found the phones from the manufacturer that were compatable with my non-international telecommunications service. (I got the first Sony waterproof release in the age of ricepacks)

So I'm... esoteric.

[-] _dev_null@lemmy.zxcvn.xyz 1 points 1 year ago

I saw that warranty one and was like, welp, I'm already in trouble.

Then I got down to the lawyer one, and was like hey only lawyers can understand lawyers in court. A lawyer I am not.

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[-] pine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

I wanted to test myself to get a sense of what "level one literacy" actually meant but you have to pay to take the test and the OECD already gets enough of my money as is.

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 2 points 1 year ago

Here's a good study on gunshoot statistics thay include nonletal gunshot wounds:

https://www.theactuarymagazine.org/firearm-risk/

[-] Eiim@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

Which comes out to about 1/7 of a person in that room being shot per year.

[-] cantsurf@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

But its not as shocking if I say that there are a million people in the room and one gets shot per day! (But I mean, that still seems significant to me.)

In their example, almost everybody is getting shot every year. Happy birthday, BLAM!

[-] Frozengyro@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Yea, if 1/400 people were shot a day, nearly everyone would have been shot by the time they were 2.

[-] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's good to see a lot of the statistics are close, and I appreciate the sources.

That said, for a full picture, I think you should mention that the average 20 year old doesn't have 18 gunshot wounds (365 wounds per 400 per year, is about 9.1 wounds per person per decade, or 18.2 wounds per 20 years per person)

So I'd appreciate if you include a bullet point about that.

[-] dandelion@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You didn't fact-check how many trans people there are in the U.S.^1^

It looks to be between 0.5% and 1.6% of the total U.S. population (2 - 6 in 400).

References:

Semi-related, the number of intersex people (in the literature they talk about people with "disorders of sexual development") have also been estimated to be around 1% of the population (4 in 400), source:

https://www.nature.com/articles/518288a

^1^ yes, the U.S. isn't mentioned in the OP, but your sources are looking at U.S. demographics and so I will continue with the U.S.-centrism already present.


Some Thoughts (oh boy):

There is a weird logic to pointing out how few trans people there are actually are in the OP. Even if there were many more trans people, (like if there really were 1 in 5 trans people as is commonly mis-perceived), would that make the GOP's campaign of fear-mongering and animus any more justified? I don't think this is what Shon (@gayblackvet) was going for, but it almost seems like a consequence of how the message was written.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but does it seem like way it is written implies that the problem is not that the trans panic is unjustified in its fear of trans people, but that it is merely blown out of proportion? Maybe the angle was that even if we assume trans people are a problem, it's still so few people it's not worth all this panic and legislation (there are >500 anti-trans bills in the U.S. right now, over 40 of them have already passed).

Rhetorically this perspective-taking might be effective in appealing to mildly transphobic centrists or moderate conservatives who are not entirely comfortable with trans people but who might not want to be perceived as transphobic and don't want to be associated with the rabid and vocal transphobia of the GOP.

That wedge between a more moderate closeted transphobe and a more openly transphobic right-wing one is politically useful, so I am not necessarily complaining, but there is a concern here about whether tackling transphobia is really the goal here, and if so how we should best go about that.

[-] Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Quick Google results showed me between 15 and 20% lethality for single GSWs

[-] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

That needs an addendum, otherwise it sounds like any GSW is about as lethal as covid19:

Not accounting for suicides and precision shooting, a single GSW is likely an accident, which drives the lethality down considerably. Filter out unintentional single GSWs and I bet the lethality is rather different.

[-] Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This article indicates there's no difference, in fact, and is lower than the conservative percentage I was getting earlier.

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[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago

my favourite is how tennessee effectively made insurance more expensive for everyone because one trans child wanted to play sports with her friends in school

[-] sergih@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago
[-] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 1 year ago

they basically put up a bill that banned tenncare from contracting with organizations that offer gender affirming care in any state, which is... a lot of organizations which limits the options which makes everything more expensive. at the time it was all based on a lawsuit from one 8 year old trans girl who wanted to play sports with her friends.

[-] GeneralVincent@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Nothing more Republican than having the government artificially restrict free market capitalism... wait that not what every Republican I've ever known has said they support. Weird.

[-] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago

So lets take a look at the everyday, at least 1 person is shot

This would assert %0.25 of the population receives one or more gunshot injuries each day or 830,000 gunshot victims per year

A Penn Medicine study claims the number is 329/day

Which is 0.000098% of the population or 120,167 victims a year.

Brady United clocks US gunshot victims at 117,345 per year or 0.035 of the population (321 victims a day).

I suspect our poster Shon was computing that one of his 400 Americans in a room (I presume folks in the US) was getting shot every year and misspoke / forgot to carry the one. It's too easily detectable speaking to communities that will be eager to apply skepticism and dismiss the post in entirety.

[-] Strayce@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 year ago

Because all the other shit is those two people's fault somehow, obvs.

[-] loutr@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

They need to make up reasons why their god is being such a piece of shit.

[-] teejay@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

You just accurately (and accidentally?) summarized all religions.

[-] robocall@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Those trans people better not play sports! /s

[-] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago

Americans care a lot about debating what's "fair" except when it comes to poverty

[-] MCHEVA4EVA@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I feel like it would be ok as long as they have health insurance.

[-] TheMightyCanuck@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

Holy shit the literacy rate is kinda shocking..

Do people not like to read? A quarter of the population is fucking NUTS

[-] runeko@programming.dev 1 points 1 year ago

85 is a bit high. It would be around 60, and that is the global illiteracy rate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate Still too high though.

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[-] dogfoodeater@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 year ago

This video is a great discussion of literacy. To put that rate into context, 'illiterate' often includes people that can read and write a little bit, but still struggle with some vital or everyday tasks. According to Wikipedia, 20% of US adults have a literacy level at or below level 1 which would be 80 people in this example. This report has a ton of stats and also defines each level of literacy.

[-] weeeeum@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I have no idea how no one has picked up on this and have all decided "Americans are dumb".

What everyone has missed is the literacy statistic is for ENGLISH literacy. The other 20% or so are pretty much all immigrants that cannot speak English and there aren't tens of millions of adults with the mental capacity of a rock.

[-] idiomaddict@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago

I’m from Connecticut. Willimantic area, not Greenwich area, but we were still less damaged by Jim Crow and similar policies (except for redlining, that fucked everyone). I spoke to a man in 2017, who had been born in the US, seemed aware and thoughtful, and had to get his granddaughter to write down the claim number I wanted to give him, because he didn’t know his numbers or letters.

I didn’t ask, even though it was killing me with curiosity. His granddaughter probably heard the curiosity in my voice, and explained that in 1967, when he was able to leave school, the teachers didn’t care whether a black kid learned to read. They let him leave school at twelve, even though it was well after brown v the board of education. By the time he wanted to learn to read, he was older, had full time work, and it just didn’t click.

That man was underserved by his government well past the point of mistreatment, not stupid. He’s obviously only one data point, but he’s not the only black man who was treated differently in schools

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[-] 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 year ago

If at least 1 person in the room of 400 is shot per day they'd be dead in just over a year...

Last I checked the population of the US wasn't plummeting, so what else is wrong here?

[-] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 2 points 1 year ago
[-] 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 1 year ago

Oh no I see the point, but I'm hardly going to believe a point that's surrounded by obvious mistakes or embellishments

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[-] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
  • "at least 1 out of 400 shot everyday"
  • 365 shots per 400 people per year
  • or 9.1 shots per 1 person per decade

The AVERAGE American has over 9 gunshot wounds? Man things are getting bad in the US.

Note: The other statistics seem to mostly check out (see another guy's comment about that), which is great. It's just weird the gun one is so astronomically inaccurate.

[-] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 year ago

Yep. I addressed this in a reply. I think he was thinking 1/400 evey year and then forgot where he was in the thought process.

[-] DrPop@lemmy.one 1 points 1 year ago

Now the post says shot and not killed. I think that distinction is important. But I imagine those statistics are insane.

[-] jaspersgroove@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It’s insane because it’s still bullshit, 1 in 400 would mean that over 800,000 Americans get shot every day, and every single person in America gets shot every 13 months or so.

[-] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 1 points 1 year ago

I fact checked in other comments 😉 OP is fairly accurate overall, but I didn't include gunshots since I couldn't find reliable enough stats on non-fatal.

[-] MrSebSin@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

That’s the beauty of the 400 system. Once you become part of one facet, you can achieve so much more. Poor? Now you have the opportunity to be illiterate and definitely not have health insurance. Which is convenient as you will either participate in or be privy to a crime that increases your odds of getting shot. Let’s say you hit the jackpot on all these and you recover from your injuries, you still have the opportunity to participate in mental illness!

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this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2023
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