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submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world to c/aboringdystopia@lemmy.world

Here and Here for sources that back up the claims made in this tweet. Additional source for backing up the number of journalists killed in the Vietnam war

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[-] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 135 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The WWII number is ridiculous - are they saying that among the millions of civilians that died, there were only 69 journalists?

The Vietnam number isn't right either - it counts only journalists on the American side.

Generally when you see someone claim that anything is worse than WWII, they're not telling the truth. Even the Hamas attack wasn't as bad as a normal day during that war.

[-] mhague@lemmy.world 98 points 11 months ago

Journalists being killed almost certainly refers to journalists actively reporting on the war, embedded in units, the ones with passes. They are actively linked to orgs so when they die they're accounted for as a killed journalist.

I think including every single death of a civilian who happened to be a journalist but wasn't working as one would be too literal an interpretation.

[-] ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 36 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Even then, the number of official German, Japanese, and North Vietnamese journalists that died is not included and presumably not small. The WWII and Vietnam casualty counts are for the journalists of the stronger power fighting a war on its enemy's territory so I suppose it could be meaningful to compare them to the number of Israeli journalists killed, but they're not really relevant in the context of Palestinian journalists.

[-] Donkter@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

Yeah I think this is comparing recorded intentional journalist assassinations in WW2 and the Vietnam war vs total journalists killed in the Gaza war. It's pretty well corroborated that some of the journalist deaths are assassinations but we don't know the concrete numbers obviously.

[-] pensivepangolin@lemmy.world 102 points 11 months ago

Uh no Israel are the good guys. They told me so.

[-] STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 77 points 11 months ago

Yes. And those journalists were probably out to make Israel look bad by using facts.

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

They didn't condonm ham ass.

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[-] jet@hackertalks.com 37 points 11 months ago

If you kill everybody who says you're doing bad things, are you really doing bad things anymore?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_diplomacy_of_Israel

Influencing foreign news, one could see silencing journalists as a form of public relations management

[-] thefartographer@lemm.ee 20 points 11 months ago

Considering how many of my family members died in the Holocaust, this heavily sarcastic statement might be in really poor taste:

Influencing foreign news, one could see silencing journalists as a form of public relations management

Nuh uh! Israel would never do that cuz that's what Hitler did. Hitler's the one who declared war on the media! Being victims of attempted genocide ourselves, the Jews could never perpetrate such hard-learned lessons on anyone else, right?! Right...?

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 24 points 11 months ago

I honestly don't know how to interpret your comment. I'm sorry you lost people to the Holocaust.

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[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

Christian ethics and the notion of suffering as a purifying and cleansing event. Science tells us tho, that people who are hurt are more likely to hurt others. There's no reason for it to be different with societies and communities.

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[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 93 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Israel bombed a press squad last week with all the right equipment and a clearly marked press sign on vehicle near the Lebanese border. There were no other people near them.

The IDF terrorists could easily see from their drone that they were journalists. Yet they still bombed them. These are israeli terror attacks hoping to deter journalist from covering their war crimes.

https://youtu.be/RIymozNfp4U?si=XPaurLdJgkO1VhC_

Also this one nearly missing a squad of journalists is very a clearly Targeted IDF terror attack.

https://youtu.be/tjtoslFkPm8?si=V_5LG-GcmJ3cTKz3

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[-] ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca 52 points 11 months ago

During WWII American combat medics stopped wearing red crosses because Japanese soldiers would prioritize killing medics, which was a war crime. Seems like journalists might unfortunately need to stop marking themselves as journalists.

[-] Mr_Blott@lemmy.world 42 points 11 months ago

Just asking, is this mostly due to more journalists, or due to more people calling themselves journalists? Or both

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 46 points 11 months ago

It could be a factor, no doubt. But considering a couple of anecdotes. One where the IDF opened fire unto a jeep clearly identified as press on the border with Lebanon. And the fact that they've also killed hundreds of UN staffers on Gaza during this past month alone. I'm inclined to think that Israel is being at best reckless, at worst intentionally malicious with who they're targeting. Either way they don't care about who they kill in their murderous warpath.

[-] Doorbook@lemmy.world 7 points 11 months ago

They literally called or message a press person while live on tv reporting, telling them evacuate your home we are going to bomb it. It is definitely malicious.

Now why the number is high? Well no one in mainstream media care about telling the Truth so more people are doing that to help take footage, because without a picture and a video people don't care to believe written words.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This video disagrees with you. Israel intentionally targets and bombs journalists. This is a fact.

https://youtu.be/RIymozNfp4U?si=Ja-5qjPhLfUvcvwh

[-] VaultBoyNewVegas@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

The idf killed a journalist from Al jazzera only a few years ago and then denied that they did anything, then they claimed some other bullshit and then the US got involved wanting to examine the ballistics. This whole song and dance eventually led to the idf admitting that they did kill the journalist who had her helmet and pass on clear display.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Shireen Abu Akleh.

The IDF lied for months they didn't shoot her even with all the evidence pointing against them. And when the wind blew over they went "yeah we did it lol".

The IDF strategy seems to be to just Shaggy defense everything. Somehow people are still believing anything they say so I guess lying pays off?

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[-] Z4rK@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago

I can’t find any source for the numbers from Vietnam and WW2 in the linked sources.

[-] STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The sources for Vietnam and WW2 are in the second link. It should be noted that nowadays there's much more journalists than ever before. Unlike WW2 and Vietnam journalists were able to avoid areas of potential conflict more easily rather than in Gaza where Israels approach of bombing the shit out of the small strip of land has meant there virtually no place where a journalist reporting on their actions can safely do so.

Also I added a third source to the post which corroborates the Vietnam estimate.

[-] yetAnotherUser@feddit.de 7 points 11 months ago

I highly, highly doubt the numbers for WW2 are even remotely accurate. There is no source in the article.

Quickly searching online reveals at least 48 dead mostly American and/or English journalists, although quite a few deaths cannot be considered war crimes even today - being aboard a bomber makes you a valid target I believe.

Besides, where's the number of killed axis journalists? Surely in Hiroshima there were a few dozen journalists, don't you think?

[-] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 9 points 11 months ago

This claim is almost as stupid as thwt israeli delegation that wore David stars to say that Jews were treated just as bad now as they were during WWII. Not entirely as stupid, but close enough.

WWII killed 69 journalists? Really? right there

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[-] mob@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

I know, this isn't a fun question, but it's honest curiosity..

Do you think a contributing factor in the number difference is the amount of modern "journalist"? Like bloggers being considered journalists?

But in the end, it's all fucked up and every death is a tragedy, no matter the profession or side.

[-] Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 14 points 11 months ago

I googled the names of a few of these guys and they got pictures with the blue "bulletproof" press outfit on and are real journalists.

Sadly these people don't seem to be random bloggers.

[-] Something_Complex@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

Hey maybe the first guy who went around taking pictures of shit for the newspaper was considered insane by some.

Idk, but mb yhe they are our generation's addition to journalism

[-] mob@lemmy.world 2 points 11 months ago

I hate that I feel like I have to disclaimer that this is just thinking, and not justification or anything... But it's a sensitive topic

But my thought is if we considered all bloggers as journalists... I feel like we'd have to consider people in WW2 who kept journals as well.

Again, not trying to take away from anything. I guess I just think considering internet hobbies as professions is weird in general. Like "rapper kills rapper" news story... But the rappers have a few songs on SoundCloud with like 10 listens.

[-] Something_Complex@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

Welcome to the future ig, no one said it would be what we thought

[-] theunmentionable@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago
[-] cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Conclusion is, there are a lot more journalists around war situations now, willing to take a lot of risk, than there were in older days.

Joke asside though, it's too many deaths, not only on journalists but in all

[-] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

So this idiotic claim implies that among millions of Jews and millions of Chinese slaughtered there were exactly 69 journalists. Bullshit.

Also if those same "journalists" behave like this medic did where he left injured person lying on the ground and instead took his gun so other person can keep shooting, am not surprised one bit.

[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 1 points 11 months ago

Those who target journalists...

[-] chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

This artificial Zionist State that proclaims itself "Israel" has nothing to do with the biblical Israel that the great Christian mass believes in. Get real

[-] NounsAndWords@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

IDK. They have a conservative government. This is the type of "shoot first, don't ask questions" mentality they use. This is what it would look like if Bush (either one) or Regan were running the show. Get the conservative warmongers out of power and they're just like everyone else.

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this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
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