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[-] Ryumast3r@lemmy.world 44 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)
[-] willy_wallace@lemm.ee 27 points 2 years ago

I mean, most Christians would say yes because that's the entire premise of the crucifixion.

[-] Thoven@lemdro.id 15 points 2 years ago

This interpretation leaves out the most important part of the crucifixion story: Jesus willingly took on the world's sins out of love. So whether or not most Christians would say yes depends on if the one person being tortured has a choice in the matter, which is unspecified in the question.

[-] Terevos@lemm.ee 5 points 2 years ago

I came to say the same thing. This is exactly what Christianity believes.

But of course, it was Jesus who gave himself willingly.

If he was forced to do that, it would've been reprehensible because he was the only truly innocent person who ever lived.

[-] Griseowulfin@sh.itjust.works 24 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas

Basically the plot of this story. It poses the issue of how much we value society over the individual, and if that is good or not. Would you want to live in a world that depended on the the torture of a single person. You then could extrapolate that out to societies in the real world, US and chattel slavery. the west and the use of sweat shop labor for cheap products, the Emirates and their use of migrants as indentured servants. Even tipped wages for servers in the USA, the gig economy, and things like medical residencies could be considered a minor version of Omelas. As humans, we often tolerate the abuse or exploitation of others for our own benefit, or even just out of ignorance and inaction.

[-] AsimovsRobot@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

A great story that illustrates this question really well. It is by Ursula K. Le Guin, written in 1973, if anyone is wondering.

[-] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 2 points 2 years ago

Ursula K. Le Guin

So pissed that she is not much more famous. Earthsea is one of the great fantasy stories that people tend to forget.

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[-] sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 3 points 2 years ago

It is a quick read. One of a handful of stories that I have gone back to over the decades.

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[-] OptimusPhillip@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

If that one innocent person agrees to it, I say yes. Otherwise, no.

[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

If nobody volunteers, we all go down.

[-] potterpockets@sh.itjust.works 13 points 2 years ago

Do you mean ultimate badass Talenel’Elin , Herald of War?

[-] Hyggyldy@lemmy.world 7 points 2 years ago

He. Did. Not. Break.

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[-] intensely_human@lemm.ee 13 points 2 years ago

No it’s not morally preferable. Fuck that world that requires human sacrifice.

[-] SeahorseTreble@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Just out of interest, what if we make it a (not-human) animal instead of a human? Or, what if we make it trillions of animals every year. What about a world that doesn't require it but still includes mass amounts of animal sacrifice unnecessarily? That's the world we're in right now 😂

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[-] jet@hackertalks.com 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

I'll take a different approach here. Evolution does not care about your feelings.

If a species is unwilling to self-sacrifice for the greater good, and it comes up against an event that cannot be solved with selfishness, it goes extinct. Like in this scenario.

But evolution is a motherfucker, and evolution does not care about your feelings, the only thing that matters to evolution is reproductive success. So some people are going to be altruistic because that's better for the species because it makes it more survivable.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's wrong, but the species that's going to survive is the one that's willing to self sacrifice for the greater good of the species. To increase reproductive success. And that's what's going to be left in the universe. Because evolution does not care. You either get with the program or you get out of the gene pool no other option

[-] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 8 points 2 years ago

Evolution is not a good base for morals. We tried it out - was really bad.

[-] GiuseppeAndTheYeti@midwest.social 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Now hold on. How can we be certain? Maybe holocaust 2: electric boogaloo will be better

[-] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 5 points 2 years ago

I'm in Germany, so not sure if allowed to answer.

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[-] lath@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

An inherently flawed world maintaining its function through cannibalism will inevitably devour itself into nonexistence. Why prolong its suffering?

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[-] DeanFogg@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago

Is that person Rupert Murdoch? Then yes

[-] LetterboxPancake@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 years ago

Haha, innocent. He doesn't really fit the description.

[-] DeanFogg@lemm.ee 2 points 2 years ago
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[-] DoomBot5@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

Can we torture 10 deserving people instead of 1 innocent?

[-] monobot@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 years ago

I think it has happened numerous times already under the same pretense.

I am not sure if we are saved or not.

[-] pandaconurbano@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 2 years ago

I'd just walk away from Omelas.

[-] AsimovsRobot@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

A great story that illustrates this question really well. It is by Ursula K. Le Guin, written in 1973, if anyone is wondering.

[-] Shardikprime@lemmy.world 4 points 2 years ago

Unfair to ask the question in the incomplete form.. The tortured person is you. Now answer

[-] octoperson@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 years ago

Nope. That's a world that's not worth saving.

[-] quicksand@lemmy.world 8 points 2 years ago

Is it really though? Injustices happen all the time here. I want to agree with you but I'm struggling to come up with good justifications for it. Can you explain your thinking a little bit?

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[-] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 4 points 2 years ago

Are you trying to make an arguement for Christianity?

[-] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 3 points 2 years ago

I would not do it, if somebody else does it - so be it.

[-] karmiclychee@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 years ago

"healthy unemployment rate"

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 years ago

Come torture me

[-] danileonis@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Someone needs to watch "Knock at the Cabin" by Shyamalan.

[-] NightOwl@lemmy.one 2 points 2 years ago
[-] danileonis@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 years ago

Absolutely!

[-] MiddleWeigh@lemmy.world 2 points 2 years ago

That is many people's mentality, yes. It probably depends if you were the one being tortured or were close. Pain can be ignored if not directly felt, especially if it means whatever you think your survival entails.

I'm not comfortable with it, but I'm not comfortable with life either.

[-] treadful@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 years ago

Random people we've never heard of get tortured every day for less. What's one more? Jack Bauer will do whatever he needs to do so everyone else can live and the world doesn't end.

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this post was submitted on 08 Aug 2023
74 points (92.0% liked)

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