The DM was a DM asking us to change our no tankies policy and remove the fuck tankies banner as it was apparently upsetting hexbear users. Apparently tankies view the word tankie as a form of slur. The admin wants us to ally as a form of "left solidarity"
Now personally I think we have the word takie pretty well defined in our rules and have no intention of changing it. Fuck tankies, they don't belong here.
I didn't write fuck commies, or fuck [ originally I said libtards here because I couldn't think of another shorthand insult for generally liberal people. People have since asked me to remove the word, as even though I am using it as an example and not as a slur, it still has the suffix of an ableist slur. I understand, and as you can see have edited the comment accordingly], (I am a vocal socialist and very far left) or anything like that, the banner is specifically about pro-auth dictator-worshipping tankies.
Is criticism of the use of that word against 196's rules? Here are articles from the Chicago Tribune and the Anchorage Press, and a definition from the Cambridge English Dictionary which say:
Taking the R-word and adding "lib" to it doesn't make it any less offensive. And what bothers me is that those who combine "liberal" with that word are not insulting their intended targets — they're insulting an entire group of people who have done nothing wrong, all while perpetuating a term that simply needs to go away.
Combining the R-word with liberal makes it no less offensive.
an offensive word used by some people on the extreme right of politics to refer to someone who holds left-wing political beliefs
While I understand that you're using it ironically, I believe that being critical of the ironic use of offensive language is valid and contributes to discussion. I find it concerning that Nakoichi's post was removed without any explanation other than calling him, "braindead."
Being called a liberal is insulting enough. Most liberals will identify as progressives.
Ok yes I'm not calling anyone a liberal though
To be clear, what I asked for, was that the direct contents of a DM not be shared without the other parties permission. You can absolutely summarise the contents of the discussion.
Oh boy, more of Moss starting shit. This is literally bait that doesn't actually communicate anything, along with communicating something you never actually said. Moss, quit with the shitty bait posts and ableist slurs, you are a drama starter in your own community and it isn't appreciated. Malicious compliance towards Ada is a dick move.
Shoot I didn't mean to start any shit with ada. I didn't have time for a whole write up this morning the scribbled image was all I had time to do during my commute. I think it's coming off as a lot dickier than I meant to
Posting a blacked out screenshot and saying "Ada made me do it" is just weird. You didn't even leave a description. All we see is that you got a DM and there are a bunch of scribbles over it, this is a nothing burger. It being pinned to the top of the community is weird. If you had posted the actual screenshot and made an actual point to what they said and didn't use slurs that insult my child, I'd feel a tad different. But as it stands, this really feels like drama seeking behavior. There is no argument being made, it's just directing people towards Hexbear.
This is the kind of thing that Chapo got banned from Reddit over, the exact event that created Hexbear. If you don't like Hexbear, that's fine. They are generally drama starters, I don't support defederation but I understand why it's being talked about. But you can't call their users slurs, provide no context to what they said, and expect anybody in what is a safe space to be okay with it. It is literally the same thing that makes us discuss defederation with Hexbear, except they don't use slurs.
Okay couple things here, some of which are legitimate criticism, and some of which are just straight up ignoring the fact that they've been resolved. I'll respond in order. One: the screenshot. Originally, I had a screenshot of the DM, with the intention of people responding to it as a sort of survey. Ada removed the post, and asked me not to post private messages, so I quickly scribbled out the DM in the 3 minutes of free time I had to check my phone and left for a good 8 hours or so. Now that I'm back, I have not had adequate time to create a write-up of what the DM said, as I've been too busy trying to put out the fires I inadvertently caused. I have also already unpinned the post from the community, as it was only pinned while I was deciding how to respond to the hexbear admin. Secondly, the slurs. Whether or not I should have used a word derived from a slur is besides the point, because after people corrected me I edited the post accordingly. I have already resolved this, and corrected my behavior so there's really no reason to continue fighting about it. I've also never called anyone slurs! I used a semi-slur in an extreme hypothetical example of what I wasn't saying that is used by the right as a catch-all insult for anyone slightly left of center. What you're accusing me of I miles off the mark for what originally happened. also wtf is a chapo
Nah they haven't been resolved, you're throwing a tantrum because you got called out for being racist and ableist.
Now I'm racist? Lmao
The context is that I pointed out their ableism and the fact that the whole "tankie" thing is often leveled at non-white organizations and people striving for liberation and they removed my comments while using more ableist language in the modlog.
I tried to be diplomatic and will still put forth that effort but wrt this Moss person, the gloves are off.
Why? That doesnt make any sense. As soon as you post or DM anyone that is out in the world. If you cannot trust a party to not share your messages if you dont want them shared then dont send them. But it is the freedom of the individual to share what has been said to them. Summarizing muddies the water. Asking for this is grotesque.
DMs are by definition not public. Privacy is respect, and starting a discussion rsther than posting a screenshot of a DM would show that Moss respects the request. Basically, it shows tact and leadershio ability. Posting DM's shows a skill issue.
some people want to post here but are repelled by "fuck tankies?"
good.
that is the intended functionality of the banner.
Generally speaking, people offended by this are either:
libs that dont understand the distinction between tankie and communist or have been misinformed by tankies on what its supposed to mean, but are pro communism(wierd combination?)
the "CCCP did nothing wrong" people
maybe having something leftist in the banner or some place like that could help the former, but I wouldnt remove the message, as it acts as a soft filter for the latter.
Fuck anyone who works for the Dept of Naval Intelligence or the FBI. Fuck their social media interns, even. Anyone who interferes with the internet to filter out left-wing political content is scum.
If that offends you more than "fuck tankies," you have the same problem but worse.
You're a human or a fed. Are we on the same page? If not, that'd be odd, since this is just a trans-friendly forum for harmless shitposting, right? There shouldn't be any feds here.
How about fuck anyone who works for the Chinese disinformation and propaganda arm. Fuck anyone who censors their citizen’s internet. Fuck anyone who is actively committing genocide against minorities within their country.
Works both ways!
Fuck anyone who is actively committing genocide against minorities within their country.
Are you american?
Believe it or not but
Who'd a thunk it?
I think all instances should block the tankies treat them the same as you would alt right because really there no different they both support facist ideologies
Yeah, definitely not. "Tankie" isn't some mostly meaningless word like "woke", it's a very specific belief in authoritarian self-declared, so-called "communist" states (USSR, China, North Korea, et al).
They claim to be for revolution and then turn around and give 100% blind obedience to the newly installed leaders. Pointing out their immense power or bad actions gets you called brainwashed, a reactionary, or counter-revolutionary. They win gold in mental gymnastics in regards to how the new ruling class totally doesn't count as a ruling class, how the state doesn't count as a state, how the money doesn't count as money, and how it's still communism even though not a single one of those prerequisites has ever been met.
They don't take down systems of oppression, they replace them and refuse to believe it isn't the greatest idea anyone's ever had. Here's a hint: if your "revolutionary" party demands absolute loyalty, they probably aren't as great as they say.
I think if a person feels offended by a generic "fuck tankies" in the banner, then that person is probably a tankie. Fuck tankies.
Tankies mad they're being called tankies?
Drawing a comparison to the use of "woke" is fucking hilarious. Only one of those terms is actually an insult, and the insinuation that both of those terms are the same says a lot about their perspective.
yeah. fuck tankies. that's the thoughts.
The fact they feel the phrase fuck tankies is acting as a barrier to their participation in 196 should be a wake up call for them to examine their political views.
Unlike their use of the word liberal, which they use to refer to everyone to the right of them on the political spectrum, we are using the word tankie for a single specific group. Tankie means authoritarian communist. Please keep the sign.
I say I have to agree. Leftist infighting is cringe AF. Disagree w/ people all you want, but gatekeeping and name calling is just silly
I think it's reasonable to want to have a space that's free from people that defend authoritarian regimes. From my perspective, at least, 196 has always been a more anarchist-oriented space, and I think it makes sense to try to preserve that.
I'd also make the distinction that they are not banned from this forum, in the same way that libs are not banned from posting on their instance -- but those that post there are generally met with hostility, and that preserves the character of their space. I don't see why we shouldn't do the same.
Not to mention that this sub is unapologetically pro LGBT while practically every authoritarian government (including particularly those that tankies support) has been anti LGBT. eg, China prohibits same sex marriage and adoption, while forcing trans people to get permission from their family to transition (spoiler alert: they ain't progressive).
Democratic socialism with actual equality for all (which goes hand in hand with the root issue socialism is supposed to solve) makes sense and is reasonable. But that's not what tankies support. They're defined by support for authoritarian states that have nothing to do with equality except pretending that they care about it.
Or how LGBT relationships and "sissy-men" get censored out the wazzoo in popular Chinese Media and on social media.
Fun fact my mainland Chinese friends started saying "this humiliates China" without any other context on their social media because they weren't even allowed to say they were lonely during lock downs due to censors.
China prohibits same sex marriage
Dude. America prohibited same-sex marriage until 2015. And it was not Obama or Congress who legalized gay marriage in America, it was 9 unelected judges, by a 5-4 ruling by the way. And those same 9 unelected judges can take away Americans' right to gay marriage any time they want to. There are lawsuits in place that are trending in that direction. As if America does not have a history of anti-gay discrimination...
As opposed to the democratic political system in china I assume? I'm so fucking sick of American "leftists" simping for the boots they haven't felt.
Fuck authoritarianism, I don’t care what side of the isle it’s from.
Tolerating putin simps is even more cringe.
Are Cuba and Vietnam considered good or bad? Nicaragua? How about the new coup leaders in Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger? Any successful revolution has demonstrated the necessity of authority, to enforce an ideological will on society and stop the bourgeois class from re-appearing requires authority. Any revolution with be authoritarian, even and especially if it is the oppressed overthrowing the oppressor.
Sure, say you don't like China, the Soviet Union, or the DPRK for your own reasons, but why use a term that encompasses any successful revolution, as even the CNT-FAI was finding a need for things like secret police during the awful times of a revolution.
You should maintain your site culture, but there's a reason anti-communists and fascists use the term tankie as well, it's imprecise and volatile.
Edit: I apologize if this is not a post meant to invite discussion, I just don't see this perspective shared very often in these conversations.
Look I am sure many of those places have done great things, like China's recent wage cuts for rich bankers and pay rises for those lower on the totem pole, a good thing give credit where credit is due. But. How can you possibly remove the Bourgeois then place yourself at the top of the totem pole and not think of yourself as the new Bourgeoisie?
Yes every violent revolution is going to be authoritarian because you have lined people against the wall and you are not going to get every dissenter in the first round and unsurprisingly they are going to be pissed. So now you have a violent government and and a violent opposition, not exactly fun times for everyone stuck in the middle, Which once that happens is not just the liberals as many hexbears use as an insult for everyone not Auth-Left but basically the whole political spectrum that aren't on the far ends.
A benevolent dictatorship is going to be the absolute best form of government you could possibly ever have but. You are never going to have one. The people at the top want to be at the top, and the people who want to be at the top are always going to be bastards.
You think that Authoritarianism is needed to keep the revolution going. Definitely correct if you do it through a coup. I don't want to be under a nation that will silence me or worse because I criticise them. You can call that counter-revolutionary if you like but I would rather have incremental improvements where things get better slowly than everything is worse now and you just got to believe that things will get better, and our leaders plans will all just work out.
Tankie is a slur against Auth-Left. If you are Auth-Left well that's the slur people who don't like you are going to use.
To pivot on what this original post was likely created for (admittedly in a pretty bad way). Hexbear is full of some really crazy people who have very strong opinions and shout memes that make sense in Hexbear but don't really out of it. 90% of Hexbears just seem so unhinged. If I see someone from Hexbear it makes me skittish to actually start a discussion with that person as there is a high chance they are just going to be hostile.
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.