Refusing to vote for an imperfect candidate in order to stop a fascist takeover doesn't sound very smart. "We can't have our specialest most perfectest prezzy so lol get fukked every1."
Neither does ignoring their concerns and saying they should just vote for Biden because he's not trump.
It's true, and they should.
But we have literal decades of evidence showing that "what are you going to do, vote Republican ?" Is a bad strategy and if we want engagement we need to actually do things or at least try
Think of it this way
By the next election one choice isn't eligible anymore, and the second will likely be so buried under court cases he won't be able to.
So it's more of a "finish what was started" and hopefully by the next election we'll finally have some new people to worry about.
4 years is a long time...
And we literally just used that excuse 4 years ago and are going to have the exact two candidates...
And history shows we'll likely still have to pick between two elderly out of touch white men in another four years.
One will probably be actually evil again, and the other will likely think changing anything is too rash of a decision and things are changing to fast already.
The entire point of running for office is getting people to vote for you, that's why the party places so much importance on large corporate donations.
But when a moderate candidate can't get voters energized because they're too pro business and won't help Americans, suddenly it's the Americans fault.
Maybe we should re-evalute if "bringing millions from corporations and billionaires" is really more important in a candidate than "people like this person and want to vote for them".
We keep running historically unpopular candidates in the general and then getting mad they're not popular with voters.
Why keep doing it over and over again?
Why keep doing it over and over again?
Because these corrupt politicians deliver big time for their donors. For recent examples, just look at the massive $2 trillion in tax cuts for the rich and corporations Trump passed. That was pretty much his only legislative accomplishment. And then Biden made those cuts permanent. (Ok, not exactly, he raised them back up a small amount by closing a couple loopholes but not close to what they were pre-trump).
If the established power structure won’t allow outsiders to run, and the donors always get what they want, I ask this question instead:
Why would things ever change from here?
kinda hoping for buried in more than just court cases...
The problem is there's too many people hoping for the perfect candidate, who will champion their progressive vision, who will guide us into a utopian future. People want their vote to feel good.
But that's a pipe dream. That person only exists in fiction. Real politics is messy, because it's a group endeavor, and you will inevitably have to get your hands dirty if you want your voice heard, or else lose your voice to people who are glad you stayed silent.
The issue is that Gen Z has clocked onto "to what end?" The GOP is going to run a fascist in every presidential election for at least the next decade, maybe until the party collapses. This is the second election in a row where Gen Z has had to "suck it up because democracy is at stake." They're not idiots, they have a strong suspicion that they'll be told to suck it up again in the election after. Is it any surprise that they're not interested in a system that has told them to shut up and do as they're told?
Its especially rough to ask Gen Z to vote for the guy who amped up our oil production to record levels. We cant afford to wait 4 more years on climate and Biden doesn't give enough of a shit about the climate. He was utterly inadequate to the moment 4 years ago, and he hasn't gotten better. I'll still vote for him but centrists you've fucked us, thanks.
It's easy to not give a F when you live at home and work just to buy fun stuff for yourself.
So you mean everyone? Who doesn't live at home and doesn't buy fun stuff for themselves?
I walked into that one. Meant to say live with parents. And I did mean work just to buy fun stuff. It's different for a lot of young adults but I think most of their paychecks go towards recreation instead of necessities.
Okay, thank you for clarifying. I remember being young and having less responsibilities, I made significantly less money than I do now but nearly everything I made went towards recreation aside from my cell phone bill and saving for a car. I didn't actually start building a real savings till I was in my early 20's when I finally made enough to move out.
Anecdotal, I know, But I think it's important to keep in perspective that young adults are new to spending and saving, and because they're young and have no experience, we don't yet trust them with big responsibilities, so they get entry level, low paying jobs to start out with. They might not get savings options for retirement, and barely make enough to bother with it, honestly.
But being new to making money at that age, part of that process is learning to spend and save responsibly. That usually means a few years of just recreational spending and maybe a few minimal bills before reality sets in and they take on more responsibility. I don't think that's a bad thing, a lot of that recreational money from younger people props up all kinds of industries.
Would it be great if we all saved from a young age, Absolutely! The sooner the better. But at that age, young adults still gotta grow up a little bit before they really think about that stuff. And personally, I think they should take that extra freedom and lack of responsibility and spend it with their friends, before life and other responsibilities get in the way.
Nothing against their spending habits. I think it's good for your early experiences with working, usually poor, get offset by the fact more of that income is disposable. As you get older though you'll see less and less disposable income (as a percentage) and you pay greater attention how politics can affect your standard of living.
The problem is, I'm almost 40 and have been hearing this my whole life. And the Democrats keep moving further right.
It isn't just Gen Z. My own parents are tired of the bullshit, lesser of two complete won't do fuck all for Americans and are talking about opting out of 2024 because they don't want an old guy doing not a lot of them in middle America but don't want to vote for a criminal racist either.
That was a fun conversation about how you don't have to like the old guy, I don't really either, but fuck me if you'll roll over and let a literal fucking Nazi in the office by not voting for ineffective.
As a Canadian philosopher once noted:
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice!
Let me know once it's time to start keeping things equal with hatchet, axe, and saw.
Oh look, more "everybody's doin' it" propaganda
As a leftist, it's important to accept that the Dems will never, ever, ever move to the left unless there's massive grassroots organization such as Unionization and Socialists winning local elections.
People who abstain from voting as protest, however, still think ironically that voting is anything other than loss prevention. If everyone sits out and protests, literally everyone on the Dem side and Trump wins in a landslide, and Trump manages to keep elections for 2028, the Dems still won't move to the left.
That's why voting as a leftist is about loss prevention, rather than gaining material change. The movement leftward comes from upsetting the entire 2 party process by flipping the table itself. Mass Unionization and taking of key seats is exactly how you (non-violently) upset the process and force concessions or enable third party to be theoretically viable.
Until then, however, any leftist not voting Dem in the federal election is sorely misguided.
I agree completely, and I'd argue that the consistent inability of the youth to mobilize at any point in the past 100 years has been a major contributing factor that keeps the Democrats from caring much what they think. For better or worse, if you abstain, you prove that you're not worth the effort. Every time they try something big like MTV's Rock the Vote campaign in the 1990s, they get burned by the lowest youth turnout in the modern era. Obama targeted Millennial voters hard, but it turns out his victories had more to do with swaying young voters than driving more turnout. Midterm youth turnout literally never gets much above 30%, and 2018 was the first time Millennials got even close to the turnout of boomers and Gen Xers.
When the left sits out, the right wins. And when voters sit out, parties leave them behind. Political parties will chase likely voters every single time, and if you're not a voter, your opinion doesn't even register to the leaders of this country. How even could it, if you don't participate?!
If you don't vote, you may lose the opportunity next time. Fascists don't exactly like democratic voting systems.
Politics is messy. This just sounds like a bunch of over-privileged naive people who are afraid to get their hands a little dirty.
Your vote isn't a valentine, it's a chess move.
I guess it's just easier to blame the boomers for the state the country is in, comparing to bothersome things like exercising your right to choose. Kids. Go figure.
I wonder what billionaire feudalism propaganda servitor ordered this article written? Someone from the WalMart clan? Koch Bros? Who?
And them not seeing that having the right to even abstain is at threat.There may not be another election next time.
“The logic of not voting for Joe Biden in 2024 is that the Democratic Party is supposed to be accountable to young people and diverse communities.”
Such an adorable take. I used to think they were accountable, too. That they gave a shit what I thought and would do things that I approved of, or have a good reason not to. That voting actually sent a message.
Give this kid another decade and he'll be as hopeless as I am.
Then there's this guy:
“[I’ll say], ‘Hey, you want to buy a house after college, right? You want to have a good-paying job after you graduate, right? You want to be able to have access to health care?”
I really don't think voting is the best way to get these things. Especially when Democrats never talk about access to health care, just health "coverage."
What voting for Biden will get you is more boring government. That's about the only thing voting will get you that you actually want.
This kid actually gets it:
And then there’s the Electoral College. For Lillian, it’s difficult to feel like her vote matters in a state that has gone blue since 1980 and a rural county that generally swings red. "The whole [voting] thing is a symbolic gesture,” she says. “If we had a more direct voting system, I would participate more. The Electoral College is scum.”
Want people to think voting matters? Make their vote actually matter. Outside of swing states votes for president just become meaningless statistics, especially since you don't need the popular vote to win the election.
Will the silence be loud enough to create actual change in how the Democratic Party approaches the youth vote in future elections[?]
It never has been, and it never will be.
There's a Gen Z kid that I was talking to who said she liked Trump because he's so funny and crazy, and that was literally as much as she knew about him, just the stupid antics. I was horrified, like, "You've got to be kidding?" I hope I did a good job explaining how bad he was for the country, but sometimes I wonder about the kids today. Get off my lawn.
I'd vote for President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho. He seems like a fun guy!
How politically aware were you at 18-20-something years old? All I remember from my first vote was Bush sounds like a cowboy, and I'm not into cowboys. Gore was the familiar one, and he and Clinton didn't seem too bad during my childhood, so I voted for him.
I didn't realize the consequences of someone's vote until we invaded Iraq for....reasons. I too thought it was a game that would never affect me personally.
Lots of people are very politically aware that that age. I was. My girlfriend was.
It's definitely not the majority but having spoken with my cousin and his friends I get it. Why even bother voting things aren't getting better so why try? Voting for the best of the worst is just defeating as you know you'll still be working 2 or 3 jobs just to put food on the table. Plus people literally can't afford to take time off to go vote they need the money. Some of them are trying to support their sick parents or even kids.
Because of Project 2025 and what that would mean for the future should Trump & Co. win.
This logic would apply in past elections, but when an authoritarian fascist is banging at the door everyone has a responsibility to actively hold it shut
because things can get much much worse? also mail in ballots exist?
Gen Z wants to opt out and choose irresponsibility because a decision is too hard or not to their specific liking? Wake me when there’s actual news.
Every time I see articles like this it just reminds me of 30 rock.
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
