If a trail is off limits to motorized vehicles, then it’s off limits to motorized vehicles. That should be the end of the discussion.
If someone thinks the laws are unfair and should be changed, then they should fight to change those laws. The worst thing they can do is be a smug asshole who thinks they’re justified in breaking the law because their motorized vehicle is “different”.
Legally, an ebike absolutely can be distinct from being a motor vehicle despite having a motor (at least in some places in the US).
Interesting. I was unaware of that.
There's no overarching federal law firmly regulating it, just guidelines, so actual laws can vary from state to state but generally speaking, they tend to be legally distinct from the term motor vehicle as long as they fall under the class 1-3 ebike, otherwise, they probably would consider it an unlicensed motor vehicle of some kind.
What an asshole
I mean, for serious - let's have a discussion here.
Where is the line at which allowing motocross bikes ride in public parks is problematic, but letting ebikes on them isn't?
noise/fumes from one and the ability to go faster than 40? there's a line in there somewhere that feels reasonable.
How about weight and destructiveness in power terms? Ebikes have a lot of low end torque that is capable of destroying nature. They shouldn't be on nature trails. Just the bike itself is about 3x heavier than a normal bike, and even the capability of going 25mph - they shouldn't be allowed.
I am on board with coming up with these lines. I'd say though that my wife's normal bike is 50 lbs and my ebike is 60. but a weight line, I don't know - is 100lbs it? when I made my comment I was thinking of "e-motorbikes" vs ebikes, thinking the power for motorbikes would be too much.
it's a fair point about speed - perhaps setting speed limits in parks could be enforced, (not sure) or park Rangers could determine bike validity based on power but there seems to be ways to fake that or change dynamically.
In Finland and most of EU ebikes with 250W motor and speed limited to 25kph (15mph) are clasified as bicycles and you're allowed to ride those where ever you are allowed to ride bikes aswell. However motorized vehicles (not pedal assist) you're not allowed to ride anywhere except public roads or private property with permission so even a Surron with a 250W motor and limited to 25kph but no pedals would be off-limits.
Horses are allowed on a lot of trails and are far heavier than any e-bike.
It's a great thing they don't have rotating wheels then eh?
I would not want to be drafting a horse at full gallop on soft ground.
It's a good thing this topic isn't about horses then.
Hoofs absolutely wreck the trails. They literally carve ditches on the forest floor.
The UK defines it as up to 250W and not providing motor support over 15mph. Exceed those limits and it becomes a motorbike.
That seems reasonable. Unfortunately in the US, the thought process is BIGGER BIGGER BIGGER on everything. I wouldn't be surprised at some point if you couldn't get a 250w bike in the coming years :D
It's a question of how powerful they are, motocross bikes can easily reach speeds that would be fatal if they hit a pedestrian.
E bikes, while they can potentially kill someone, are much slower.
https://www.wlrn.org/government-politics/2024-02-16/key-biscayne-bans-e-bikes-and-scooters
Two days after a beloved island tutor was killed in a collision with an e-bike, Key Biscayne’s Council banned all micro-mobility devices, effective immediately.
Should probably ban cars first if killing one person is the criteria
More likely I think we will see strict limits on what is considered an ebike and what is an e-motorcycle that is only allowed on roads.
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It's a little sad that we need to actually say this, but:
Don't be an asshole or you will be permanently banned.
Respectful debate is totally OK, criticizing a product is fine, but being verbally abusive will not be tolerated.
Focus on discussing the idea, not attacking the person.