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[-] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 34 points 8 months ago

Not trying to be that guy, but do the bike and walking numbers include the energy from the calories you eat, or the energy needed to produce that food?

[-] De_Narm@lemmy.world 28 points 8 months ago

I don't think they need to, most people already eat more food than they need to whether they walk or drive. I'd wager the average person wouldn't need to change a thing in their diet and would overall only improve their health by walking more.

[-] blandfordforever@lemm.ee 13 points 8 months ago

I've read that unless the person riding the bike is vegetarian, the ebike actually has a lower carbon footprint than the normal bike. They're still both far better than the car (ice or EV).

[-] lemming934@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 8 months ago

I might dispute the idea that there's a 1:1 relationship between marginal calories expended exercising and marginal calories eaten.

[-] zeekaran@sopuli.xyz 8 points 8 months ago

A UK study showed ebikes have a smaller carbon footprint due to how much meat British people eat.

[-] blandfordforever@lemm.ee 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Do you think you get energy from some source other than food?

If I burn 100 kilocalories pedaling a bike, my body will be using 100 kcal of energy that I got from food. There is a certain amount of carbon dioxide emission associated with the production of 100 kcal of food. That amount varies with what type of food I eat and what farming practices are used. If I choose to simply not eat extra food to replace the energy I used, my body will simply have less stored energy afterwards. My energy absolutely comes 100%, 1:1 from the food I eat, and that food has an environmental impact.

Now, if I ride an ebike, my body will use less energy. I will use energy generated by the power plant. The energy created at the power plant may actually have less environmental impact than the farm creating the food I would have eaten.

[-] lemming934@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 8 months ago

Maybe your basal metabolic rate will change because you bike more.

Since you'd have to bike like 30 miles a day for calories from biking to surpass calories from basal metabolism, small changes is basal metabolism will mater a lot

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[-] Gigan@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

No, I had the same thought.

[-] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 months ago

Are you saying "No, it's not included" or "No, you're not being 'that guy'"?

[-] noodlejetski@lemm.ee 6 points 8 months ago
[-] Gigan@lemmy.world 5 points 8 months ago

I meant it as a "Don't worry about being that guy, because if you didn't make that comment, I would have"

[-] horse@feddit.de 2 points 8 months ago

I wondered that too. I imagine it would be very inaccurate to include that as the amount of calories needed would vary wildly person to person. For example, I burned around 2000kcal to cycle 100km in hilly terrain at the weekend, while a friend burned roughly twice that on the same ride.

[-] Turun@feddit.de 27 points 8 months ago

Fuck cars, but was it really necessary to compare at such different speeds? Air resistance is a big factor and a proper electric bike can go 45kmh as well. Or the car can drive 25kmh

[-] Phrodo_00@lemmy.world 14 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

a proper electric bike can go 45kmh as well.

There's some debate about that. E-bicycles above class 2 (with assistance/drive at over 20mph) are not allowed on a lot of bike lanes, so they're more like electric mopeds

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[-] Deme@sopuli.xyz 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

The fact remains that cars are faster than bikes. Driving a car usually means going faster and hence wasting more energy. Sure, plenty of people deal with distances that necessitate such speeds to be practical in daily life, but that's a different problem to be solved.

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[-] rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 8 months ago

I think the speeds are the average speed of each transport type, so it's fair.

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[-] n2burns@lemmy.ca 25 points 8 months ago

I really like this graph because it helps visualizes scale. Sometimes, people knock e-bikes by saying they are less efficient than acoustic bikes. While that may be true, it's another example of, "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good." As shown here, e-bikes are literally the 90% solution. I really don't think it's worth sweating the potential energy efficiency differences between e-bikes and acoustic bikes. What's really important is reducing car usage.

[-] Rediphile@lemmy.ca 21 points 8 months ago

Acoustic bikes? I think analog may be more fitting here but honestly I'm not sure. I've just never heard acoustic referenced outside of sound.

[-] lemming934@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 8 months ago

Acoustic is funnier than analog, and I'm not sure if it's any less accurate than analog. In analog clocks, the passage of time is represented in an analogous rotation of clock hands. In analog sound, the change in voltage on a wire is analogous to the pressure waves you hear as sound. I don't know what is analogous to what in biking.

Also, the opposite of analog is digital, and ebikes are not digital bikes.

[-] Rediphile@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago

I'm pretty sure E-bikes are digitally controlled.

Acoustic is definitely funnier, but all definitions I can find about it relate to sound.

[-] caesaravgvstvs@feddit.de 3 points 8 months ago

Well, if your acoustic bike is not making any sound it's because you're maintaining and oiling it too much

[-] Speculater@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

I'm just happy to be here. I like this conversation.

[-] acockworkorange@mander.xyz 1 points 8 months ago

Mechanical bikes sounds good.

[-] Rediphile@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago

Motors are also mechanical.

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[-] InternationalKnee69@feddit.de 6 points 8 months ago

It's a joke. Based on e-guitars / acoustic guitars

[-] Empricorn@feddit.nl 1 points 8 months ago

It's... "manual" bikes, right? Or am I taking crazy pills?

[-] biddy@feddit.nl 19 points 8 months ago

This chart ignores one very important detail. Exercise is good for you. Those bars should be negative since it's good energy expenditure.

[-] Bye@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago

You can make anything look bad by removing the next bad comparison though. Like if a pickup truck were there, everything would look good. Remove the car and add a scooter, windsurfing, rollerblading, and rolling downhill, and the e-bike looks bad.

[-] stiephel@feddit.de 12 points 8 months ago

True, but the comparison in this case seems reasonable nonetheless. I just wish they had included fossil fuel cars, too

[-] n2burns@lemmy.ca 6 points 8 months ago

Not really. The F150 Lightning's efficiency is ~270Wh/km city which means a small EV is only a 50% improvement vs 95% for ebike.

Also, this graph is helpful given our current situation. Maybe once we're mostly at the 95% better than an F150 Lightning solution (e-bikes), it might be worth being concerned with energy efficiency, but we're not there.

[-] Bye@lemmy.world 4 points 8 months ago

I meant a regular pickup truck

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this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2024
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