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New Discord TOS binds you to forced arbitration - Opt-Out Now (discord.com)

submitted 7 months ago by empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/privacyguides@lemmy.one

108 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/17618684

Forced arbitration means any legal disputes you may have with Discord must be resolved through a single third party mediator, who 99% of the time is chosen by, and will rule in favor of, the corporation/Discord. This effectively removes all your legal rights as a consumer, because arbitration decisions are legally binding and non-appealable.

The new ToS goes into effect April 15th, 2024.

YOU CAN OPT OUT OF ARBITRATION. You must email arbitration-opt-out@discord.com BEFORE MAY 15TH (30 days after ToS effective date) with your username stating that you wish to opt out of the arbitration clause. Once May 15th passes you are bound to arbitration with Discord forever.

Opt-out before it's too late.

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[-] jaykay@lemmy.zip 114 points 7 months ago

I hate it’s not a button so much. They’re making opting out as big of a pain in the ass as possible -_-

[-] Draegur@lemm.ee 51 points 7 months ago

imagine if they said that they required a notarized certified letter sent via snail mail

[-] sadreality@kbin.social 21 points 7 months ago

With a picture of your passport and buthole in two copies.

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[-] brygphilomena@lemmy.world 40 points 7 months ago

Roku made you send a physical letter in their latest change forcing arbitration.

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[-] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 81 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Even simpler: don't do Discord.

I was invited to some Discord chatroom once: when I hit the website, the list of blocked scripts in uBlock Origin was longer than my arm. That was all I needed to close the tab immediately. I don't need to run 500 trackers from sketchy advertisement companies to join a glorified IRC chatroom with enough emojis and color to put an epilepsy sufferer in danger.

[-] Jako301@feddit.de 53 points 7 months ago

I'm not really sure what you did, but it certainly wasn't just opening discord.

I just tried it and there isn't a single third party script in the browser version according to Ublock and noscript, there are only three scripts activ in total, all from different Discord subdomains. Maybe a few more if there are media links in the chat.

If you look through the blocked connection requests they are also all made from the same source, namely the Discord science API, their internal data collector.

The Discord homepage has a Google integration and a few embedded YouTube videos, but it's hard to find a website that doesn't have some form of Google scripts.

Heck I don't even want to defend Discord here, but ia call bullshit on your story.

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[-] GravitySpoiled@lemmy.ml 73 points 7 months ago

There's an even easier method, if you do not log in for a year or so, discord deletes your account

[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 18 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

along with our data? if so thats compelling.

[-] Mac@mander.xyz 44 points 7 months ago

whoa whoa whoa let's not get carried away

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[-] headroom@lemmy.ml 16 points 7 months ago

Expecting Discord to delete your data is like expecting a company to burn the money you paid them after you stop doing business with them.

[-] can@sh.itjust.works 12 points 7 months ago

Seriously?

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[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 62 points 7 months ago

For anyone who didn’t click into the original post and whose client didn’t include its text, here are the instructions for opting out:

Opt-out. You can decline this agreement to arbitrate by emailing an opt-out notice to arbitration-opt-out@discord.com within 30 days of April 15, 2024 or when you first register your Discord account, whichever is later; otherwise, you shall be bound to arbitrate disputes in accordance with the terms of these paragraphs. If you opt out of these arbitration provisions, Discord also will not be bound by them.

Note that the forced arbitration clause applies only to Discord users in the US. The class action waiver appears to apply regardless.

This is also not a new addition to their TOS, but it does appear to require opting out again even if you already did, and to grant an additional opt out opportunity if you didn’t.

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[-] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 47 points 7 months ago

Thankfully no TOS is legally binding here since pressing agree doesn't count as signing a document.

[-] Stoneykins@mander.xyz 11 points 7 months ago

Do you have anything to prove that? I'm serious, This feels like it shouldn't be binding but I can find no legal reasons or information that it wouldn't be, and I would really like to find that.

Seems ludicrous that a company can be like "OK STARTING IN 30 DAYS NO SUING US ALLOWED. IF YOU DON'T SPECIFICALLY TELL US WITHIN THOSE 30 DAYS THAT YOU MIGHT SOMEDAY NEED TO SUE US THEN YOU NEVER CAN FOREVER." But then a lot of stuff here is ludicrous.

[-] hikaru755@lemmy.world 22 points 7 months ago

It depends on where you live. In Germany, forced arbitration in general TOS is invalid and has to be separately negotiated and agreed to. In general, what you can put into your TOS is pretty restricted, anything you put in there that a consumer wouldn't reasonably expect is not gonna be legally binding.

https://law.stackexchange.com/a/82748

[-] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 18 points 7 months ago

That is the case for all of Europe and most of the rest of the world. That's why that ToS change is only for US customers.

My country only considers electronic signatures made by our national ID cryptographic signature system to be legally binding in contracts. A ToS without that and just an agree button can only be used to set rules within that platform here. In a court a ToS is basically meaningless.

Fun fact: Our online voting system works on the same principle.

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[-] Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works 44 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

It has to be noted that this applies to US citizens. For EU citizens the arbitration rules do not apply (that at least is how I read the ToS). Instead, they get an EU body that handles disputes:

If you reside in the European Union, you may also be entitled to submit your complaint to the European Commission’s Online Dispute Resolution (ODR) Platform or the Out-of-Court Dispute Settlement (“OCDS”) mechanism under DSA Article 21.

[-] Aux@lemmy.world 32 points 7 months ago

European countries don't really have class action suits, issues are usually resolved through all kinds of government agencies and without court involvement. Why bother with court when The Consumer Ombudsman in the UK can fuck any company sideways in a fraction of time and for free?

[-] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

European countries don’t really have class action suits

You mean they don't get their $0.55 check in the mail when some lawyer successfully sues a company on their behalf and walks out with $50M?

Gee, that's truly a loss.

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[-] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 42 points 7 months ago

Inb4 people who opt out start finding themselves getting randomly banned for vague, obscure TOS reasons.

[-] thantik@lemmy.world 17 points 7 months ago

I'll update if it happens.

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[-] crazyminner@lemmy.ml 33 points 7 months ago

We need a Federated FOSS Discord alternative built to work with the activity pub protocol.

[-] glimse@lemmy.world 38 points 7 months ago

...Matrix...?

[-] ysjet@lemmy.world 29 points 7 months ago

Honestly, matrix is incredibly user unfriendly. It needs to stop being held up as an option for these sort of things.

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[-] crazyminner@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 months ago

We don't need a completely decentralized system. Matrix is not efficient, its bloated and overly complicated compared to what you could have. A federated system with minimal overhead would be nice. This is the reason I went with XMPP over matrix for self hosting a discord alternative. I just wish we had something like XMPP that interacted with activitypub.

[-] anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 14 points 7 months ago

Matrix isn't decentralized, it is federated just like lemmy or mastodon, except it is its own protocol.

xmpp is still stuck in the early 2000 and even the ecosystem of apps around it are stuck in the 2000.

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[-] tesseract@beehaw.org 27 points 7 months ago

I'm sure that this won't stop the idiots who argue in support of using Discord as a support channel for FOSS projects.

[-] Butterbee@beehaw.org 24 points 7 months ago

I'm NO LAWYER but it seems to apply to US residents only? EU has their own provisions written down where discord begrudgingly follows the laws there. But for non-eu non-us people this doesn't seem to apply to us. "‍IF YOU’RE A U.S. RESIDENT, YOU ALSO AGREE TO THE FOLLOWING MANDATORY ARBITRATION PROVISIONS. PLEASE READ THIS SECTION CAREFULLY – IT MAY SIGNIFICANTLY AFFECT YOUR LEGAL RIGHTS, INCLUDING YOUR RIGHT TO FILE A LAWSUIT IN COURT:"

For folks who will continue using discord, and that's probably most folks, it would be a good time to change your account email to an alias if you haven't already. They have clearly stated they are about to get sketch AF.

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[-] A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world 23 points 7 months ago

I was skeptical about all the hate Discord has been getting recently, but this settled it for me

[-] Fiivemacs@lemmy.ca 51 points 7 months ago

It's ALL companies...be skeptical of every single company out there. None of them have their products, or customers care and safety in mind. You are literally disposable to them all...treat them the exact same way.

[-] Wes_Dev@lemmy.ml 10 points 7 months ago

Like when McDonalds offered free fries or something for everyone who used the app, but then quietly changed the terms of service for the app to include forced arbitration.

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[-] Fijxu@programming.dev 20 points 7 months ago

Can I ask how this is going to affect other countries outside the US? I do not want to accept something that I do not really know how to handle because it doesn't really apply to my country.

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[-] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 18 points 7 months ago

What is forced arbitration and why is it bad?

[-] Wes_Dev@lemmy.ml 44 points 7 months ago

If a company does something bad, you can sue to fix it.

Suing sets legal precedent and forces all companies to abide by the ruling, more or less.

But now if a company tricks you out of your right to sue by putting arbitration clauses in everything, then you can't sue. You can only have a (hopefully) impartial third part tell the company to stop doing something specifically to you. The company is still free to keep doing the thing to everyone else, and their arbitration doesn't affect any other companies also doing bad things.

There are other issues too.

[-] neo@lemmy.comfysnug.space 11 points 7 months ago

Most importantly, Discord pays the arbitrator.

[-] empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 31 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/arbitration/what-is-arb.html

Essentially, arbitration waives your right to sue the company in any capacity and instead requires all legal disputes to be resolved by a 3rd party mediator hand picked by the company.
You can guess how often these arbitrators rule against the companies that pay them (Spoiler: it's not often)
It's used as a get-out-of-jail-free card for companies to basically have legal immunity from any kind of consequences, as all their customers must arbitrate and get told to suck eggs. Arbitration is legally binding and not appealable. It also conveniently keeps the corporate dirty laundry out of the court systems, because arbitration is private, confidential and closed-doors.

You can also watch one of Louis Rossmann's latest rants about ToS changes and arbitration being forced down users' throats suddenly without warning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AddtrV6UFFs

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[-] KuroeNekoDemon@sh.itjust.works 15 points 7 months ago

Um this is not going to hold up in the Ontario Consumer Protection Tribunal due to this: Ontario's Consumer Protection Act, 2002 (“Consumer Protection Act”) prohibits mandatory arbitration clauses and class action waivers in consumer agreements.

[-] melpomenesclevage@lemm.ee 16 points 7 months ago

The fact that they're even trying thus needs to trigger an exodus.friends don't let friends use discord.

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[-] Feathercrown@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago

‍Opt-out. You can decline this agreement to arbitrate by emailing an opt-out notice to arbitration-opt-out@discord.com within 30 days of April 15, 2024 or when you first register your Discord account, whichever is later; otherwise, you shall be bound to arbitrate disputes in accordance with the terms of these paragraphs. If you opt out of these arbitration provisions, Discord also will not be bound by them.

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[-] SquishyPandaDev@yiffit.net 14 points 7 months ago

Wait to you read other software TOS. Like it or not, forced arbitration is pretty standard.

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[-] SevFTW@feddit.de 11 points 7 months ago

lmao no way in hell this is legally binding

[-] survivalmachine@beehaw.org 10 points 7 months ago

Welcome to America. New here?

[-] ysjet@lemmy.world 10 points 7 months ago

is it 30 days BEFORE april 15th, or 30 days AFTER april 15th?

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this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2024

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