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Google mocks Epic’s proposed reforms to end Android app market monopoly (arstechnica.com)

submitted 7 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[-] ozymandias117@lemmy.world 57 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Any idea how this demand is different from the current state of Android?

Under Epic's terms, any app downloaded from anywhere would operate identically to apps downloaded from Google Play, without Google imposing any unnecessary distribution fees.

Last time I used it, I downloaded all my apps through F-Droid, and I didn’t think they were paying Google anything?

[-] atocci@lemmy.world 26 points 7 months ago

They probably mean, for example, not having to prompt the user to allow installs from "unknown sources", allowing alternative app stores to update apps and themselves automatically in the background like Google Play does, allow installations from alternative stores with one tap without extra user interaction, etc.

[-] ozymandias117@lemmy.world 14 points 7 months ago

I must have had an extension at the time, but it sounds like F-Droid does automatic updates for anything Android 12+ now?

https://f-droid.org/de/2024/02/01/twif.html

I guess the nag screen can be scary, though. Good point

[-] huginn@feddit.it 24 points 7 months ago

The nag screen is important for a bunch of less technically literate people who would otherwise install malware without thinking twice.

Or even once.

[-] ozymandias117@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

I really don’t know how to feel about it

The people it’s intended to protect will just click “yes” to anything in my experience

I don’t have a statistical analysis of results over a normal distribution of the world population, though

[-] huginn@feddit.it 1 points 7 months ago

I feel like Epic wouldn't be so strident about it without proof that it negatively affecting install rate.

But maybe the perception that it affects the rate is sufficient.

[-] SMillerNL@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

I think it affects install rate by design, which is bad for Epic in this case but good for security in most

[-] le_saucisson_masquay@sh.itjust.works 9 points 7 months ago

There are differences between play store and other store. For instance, on fdroid you have a pop up asking each and every time if you want to install or update the app after pressing install button. Play store you just click install and let it do its work in the background.

I don’t think fdroid can update app by itself in the background. Play store can.

I mean third party store doesn’t have access to some of the api play store have, things you don’t care but that is important to normies and that would induce reduced profit from epic store.

[-] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

You don't have that popup on NeoStore and other alternatives, because they use Android's new APIs. F-Droid (the app) somehow gets nowhere. Still can't export/import package sources either.

[-] T156@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

F-Droid has allegedly had automatic/silent installs for a while now, although only on newer versions of Android (12+).

[-] le_saucisson_masquay@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 months ago

I used droid-ify recently, which is well maintained and still got these pop up. Are you sure we’re talking about the same thing ? I mean pop up that says « would you like to install x app ». Yes no. And you got to give permission to the store first to even show this pop up.

[-] tb_@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Updates specifically, initial install still gives the pop-up.

From my recent experience both the main F-droid app and Droid-ify can do silent updates. Not sure how automatic they are though.

[-] RobotToaster@mander.xyz 8 points 7 months ago

In addition to what atocci said, apps not downloaded from an app store by default have limitations on their access to accessibility services.

[-] ozymandias117@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Huh. That’s a weird restriction that definitely gives credence to their case

Are accessibility services only part of Google Play and not AOSP…?

Edit: FalseMyrmidon pointed out an article about the restriction below

https://www.androidpolice.com/android-13-blocks-accessibility-services-sideloaded-apps/

Which states it’s only for side loaded applications, not for applications downloaded through a separate app store, so this wouldn’t affect Epic

It’s also important to note that Google is only restricting sideloaded apps. If you use an alternative app distribution platform like F-Droid or the Amazon app store, you won’t run into the accessibility services restrictions

[-] FalseMyrmidon@kbin.run 3 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Things like screen reader access have huge potential uses by malware. Generally it should not be trivial for a program to get that level of access to everything you do.

[-] ozymandias117@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

The restriction of being limited to Google Play and not other app stores implies the implementation is part of Google Play Services, and not included in AOSP

So I was curious if that’s how it’s implemented on Android - I know Google loves moving features out of AOSP

However, things like Android-Password-Store used Accessibility services through F-Droid for autotyping back when I used it

So, trying to understand what has been locked down, since I’m planning on going back to GrapheneOS

[-] FalseMyrmidon@kbin.run 4 points 7 months ago

https://www.androidpolice.com/android-13-blocks-accessibility-services-sideloaded-apps/

It just takes an additional warning acknowledgement.

Google isn’t fully stopping sideloaded apps from using accessibility services, though. Once you’ve run into the dialog saying that accessibility services are restricted for the app in question, you can activate access under the app info screen in the top right corner via the “allow restricted settings” menu entry, so if you’re a power user interested in augmenting your phone with a legitimate app, you can still do that. This seems like a loophole that nefarious apps could circumvent by instructing users to enable restricted settings. Thus, it’s possible that Google will still change this behavior before going live with stable Android 13.

[-] ozymandias117@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Thanks!

It’s also important to note that Google is only restricting sideloaded apps. If you use an alternative app distribution platform like F-Droid or the Amazon app store, you won’t run into the accessibility services restrictions, with Google probably reasoning that applications in app stores are screened, at least to a degree.

[-] smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 55 points 7 months ago

F-Droid supports adding third-party repos, no need to create another app, right? Right?

[-] Squizzy@lemmy.world -1 points 7 months ago

F droid is dificult, the landing page is senseless and searching isnt intuitive. Feels a bit disjointed

[-] redcalcium@lemmy.institute 26 points 7 months ago

They probably don't have a designer, but as a platform they're actually solid. App devs can't pull a switcheroo like uploading malicious apk because they can only upload source code (which will be made public), not binary. You can be sure apps you download there 100% generated from the published source code, unlike downloading from, say, release page on some random github repo.

[-] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 22 points 7 months ago

Use Droidify or Neo Store. Both are in F-Droid repo, and both are better IMO.

[-] NaoPb@eviltoast.org 2 points 7 months ago

Ahbso Droidify is a kind of store. I was wondering why I had it installed on my phone. I don't think I would ever try to repackage things or how they explained it.

[+] victorz@lemmy.world -15 points 7 months ago

Installed Neo Store. It's a joke IMO, for one single reason.

The app starts up and asks me for two permissions. "The app works better without battery optimizations." Alright? I'm not willing to sacrifice battery life for random app updates. I'll check for updates manually, and regularly, thank you.
And: "Please allow notifications if you want notifications." No.

If I want neither of those, there's no way to proceed. I press the back button, it closes the app.

Fastest uninstall ever. 😐

With a lacking thought process like that, I don't trust the store at all because the devs clearly don't have a lot of forethought.

[-] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 16 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

So...a repo manager asks to notify you of updates, and check for them in the background...and that requires an essay long screed?

FYI I have battery optimizations enabled, and notifications disabled. App works great.

But whatever, I genuinely give no shits if you use it, or don't.

[-] metaldream@sopuli.xyz -4 points 7 months ago

Neither of those permissions should be required for an app store. If someone wants to check for updates manually they should be able to do that.

[-] circuscritic@lemmy.ca 8 points 7 months ago

Required means not optional... which both are....

Also, it's not unusual for a repo manager to request the ability to check for background updates, or send notifications....which again, are both optional.

[-] warmaster@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago

If they only learned a bitfrom Flathub.

[-] Kelly@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

"Epic’s filing to the US Federal Court shows again that it simply wants the benefits of Google Play without having to pay for it," Google's spokesperson said. "We’ll continue to challenge the verdict, as Android is an open mobile platform that faces fierce competition from the Apple App Store, as well as app stores on Android devices, PCs, and gaming consoles."

Is this the mocking? Its not a very good mocking!

[-] _sideffect@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

Man, I never bought an iPhone because I despise apple and their closed ecosystem, so I was with android since the start.

But google has made me want to not buy android phones for over a decade, but what else is there

[-] laxe@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago

Ars is usually better than this. The title for this article makes no sense.

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 1 points 7 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

This would benefit both mobile developers and users, Epic argued in a wide-sweeping proposal that would greatly limit Google's control over the Android app ecosystem.

US District Court Judge James Donato will ultimately decide the terms of the injunction.

"Google must also allow developers to communicate directly with their consumers, including linking from their app to a website to make purchases and get deals," Epic said in a blog post.

"Google would be blocked from using sham compliance programs like User Choice Billing to prevent competing payment options inside an app or on a developer’s website."

If Donato accepts the terms, Google would be violating the injunction order if the tech giant fails to prove that it is not "treating Epic differently than other developers" by making it "disproportionately difficult or costly" for Epic to develop, update, and market its apps on Android.

According to Inc, Epic told Game Developers Conference attendees that its app-distribution platform will be the "first ever game-focused, multiplatform store," working across "Android, iOS, PC and macOS."

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this post was submitted on 12 Apr 2024

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