You may have heard of the “Countering Violent Extremism” program under DHS.
They’ve deployed the tactics used to fight terrorists against domestic citizens. For example, incels. When I posted on the web forum incels dot is, I didn’t know it was Department of Homeland Security operation against men who say they are romantically deprived. I didn’t know I was interacting with larping feds who encourage extremist rhetoric. Consequently I was put on a watchlist and am subject to intrusive monitoring.
I share a lot of my experience here.
https://twitter.com/WrongedIncel
My question is, is it far that the government is so targeting incels?
Blaming others for all your problems is a strong risk factor for doing violence to others. Grow up, get a fucking grip, and you'll be fine.
but incels.is = dhs
If they really thought I was dangerous they wouldn't have subjected me to sleep deprivation and various harassments...
I'll agree that state violence is bullshit. If they really wanted to help people, they could give them counselling, or maybe do something about our nightmarish society that atomises and impoverishes everyone - including men, women and others that fall outside that binary - and drives people to extremism out of desperation.
Unfortunately they are part of the problem. When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. When all you have is state repression, you're going to treat every problem like political dissidence, and that's going to create more terrorism, not less.
This something you need to understand: the state and capital are our common enemy. They work together to keep us poor and separated. Women are not your enemy, they are suffering under this system too. Our actual enemies are the ones that want to push narratives that divide us along lines of gender, race, sexuality, ability, poverty, whatever they can find, because the more we blame one another, the less we pay attention to our oppressors, and the less we work together to fight against them.
To everyone else here attacking OP: saying "fuck you, you deserve repression" is not only false, it doesn't help. This language I've used here has been shown to be effective at combating bigotry, probably because it's true.
To OP, if you don't understand why you're being targeted, this article explains how terrorism is being connected with incels, and also why state responses to terrorism aren't actually all that helpful: https://theconversation.com/why-charging-incels-with-terrorism-may-make-matters-worse-139457
I've actually said not much that is directly misogynistic. But if I say "the sexual marketplace has taken a polygynous turn," that's deemed misogyny. Good article but that advice has went unheeded especially in the United States. Fact of the matter is that incels are POLITICALLY loathed and a politicized justice department has been set loose on them.
Coded language like that may not sound misogynist to you, but so many people use it in a misogynistic way that by saying it you are identifying yourself with misogyny whether you want to or not.
Also, sex isn't a marketplace. People are not products to be consumed, bought or sold.
There is a reason women reject a lot of men, and it's not because they're rolling in good dick. It's because they are afraid of being killed for a start.
I would recommend you spend more time figuring out where your real problems come from. They don't originate with half of all people, they originate in capitalism and patriarchy. That doesn't mean the problem is "men". Patriarchy is bad for men too.
lol just a description of the sexual landscape and it's polygynous turn is misogyny. and then you run to the government to ban spaces were those ideas are discussed. i bet you'd call him misogynist too
How am I dangerous? Is it dangerous to say "emergent polygyny is a problem and men have a coalitional interest in rolling it back"? "They" have a selfish interest in self-promotion and guaranteeing work for themselves which is why they're wolfishly turning on domestic citizens.
It's dangerous and deluded and makes you a danger to others, and also to yourself.
I know it's hard to deal with the self-hatred but turning it outwards will not help you. It will just dig that miserable hole deeper until you cannot climb out of it without doing serious harm. You're missing out on so much joy simply because you're too much of a coward to take a look at yourself.
It’s dangerous and deluded
How so? That just sounds like a whine. "I don't like it please daddy government ban it."
I know it’s hard to deal with the self-hatred but turning it outwards will not help you.
wtf are you talking about?
Have you LOOKED at the recent shooters?
https://www.npr.org/2023/08/26/1196195934/jacksonville-florida-dollar-store-shooting
White male, early 20s, lives with mom and dad, writing manifestos... Why SHOULDN'T the authorities be looking at incels?
I lived by myself until feds harassed me from my secure job (back in early 2022) and then started subjecting me to sleep deprivation this year.
Friend, I recommend you consider visiting the hospital. There's a high chance you have an undiagnosed condition that they can help you with and make your life much easier. That you think the government is interfering with your sleep is a paranoid delusion, but it's very controllable.
Yes, I understand that you believe that and that I can't convince you otherwise. I am a nurse, however, and am assuring you that you will receive help for it at a hospital. It's not something I can help you with though.
dissidents have often marked as crazy by governments. indeed, they often take a hand in driving that person crazy.
Yeah, but zersetzung was used against credible political targets. Not against some random guy that can't get laid.
In the end, you choose the route you'll take. My recommendation is to check yourself in to get help before you spiral into a real crisis. Government or not, if you can't sleep you're going to need to go somewhere for help eventually.
And how did they do that exactly?
They've shutdown all incel spaces across the web and worked with tech platforms like reddit to likewise ban incel spaces. They set up honeypot forums in their place operated by feds so ANY would be incel poster gets scrutinized. When the person ends up in that space and says something a fed doesn't like, they're immediately hacked and subject to NSA tools. I became aware of this when, a month or so after posting on incels.is, I started receiving "advice" based on content retrieved from my phone! It goes much further than that -- they use metrics to see what threads a reader (not even a user) clicks on and then hack that user. They are often surprised that so many of their readers clicking on violent-endorsing threads by the larping feds end up being women. 😆
Get help man
I need sincere help in spreading the fact that incels.is -- and their network of related forums -- are run by DHS.
Yikes dude
yikes indeed. that it has come to silencing incels and repressing enough -- and that incels.is = dhs -- is very much a yikes.
edit: added archive link
They target a lot of groups.
They target "lone-actors", most likely due to asocial behavior and more extreme view points.
what's so extreme about the emergent polygyny hypothesis which I enthusiastically endorse? that's just going after people for their 1st amendment rights. also the larping feds at that dhs run website themselves encourage extremist rhetoric
Understanding the ideologies that motivate and support ideological crimes is a pretty useful step for preventing those crimes; also for investigating them once they happen. Same goes for (e.g.) violent religious movements, white-supremacist gangs, etc.
I have no problem with that but incels.is = DHS and violates the civil liberties of its unaware users (who in fact never see content from people like themselves.)
I think it's important to acknowledge that yes, the government absolutely does have shadow organizations that violate American citizens constitutional rights. No one is disputing that.
The point that most people here are trying to help you notice is that there is help. A professional , trained therapist can help. A therapist, if they're at all qualified, won't dispute your stances in regard polygyny etc.
What follows includes some assumptions of who you are and I want to acknowledge that these might not look like your struggles. Guessing by analogy of my own experience, you feel a kind of helpless. You understand the situation as it is and you recognize that it is irrational to hope blindly that your understanding is wrong and tomorrow everything is just going to be better. A therapist isn't paid to tell you that you are seeing your situation incorrectly, a therapist is paid to learn what you tell them you understand the world is like and help you find steps you can take from the position you're in now.
The ideology you identify with is associated with a tendency toward terrorism / violent actions. That is what everyone here is trying to warn you about. You sound like what a rational person becomes in hopeless situations. Seek a therapist not because they will change your mind but instead so that someone who will work to understand how you're rational and help you take rational steps from that place to one less hopeless.
The ideology you identify with is associated with a tendency toward terrorism / violent actions. That is what everyone here is trying to warn you about.
This has been hyper-exaggerated by people who don't like that perspective itself and have lobbied the government to stigmatize it by overly associating it with terrorism. It needn't have been. It's politicized horseshit. How is a therapist going to help me after I say incels.is = dhs? I want to share that with the internet not a therapist.
I understand, I could perhaps benefit from a therapist with regards to my personal issues but that's outside that incels.is = DHS.
It’s not fair for the government to target anyone who hasn’t broken the law.
I think it's a little fair to monitor groups that border on the edge of committing crimes to make sure they don't. If someone is going around saying they're going to kill people, even if they haven't, I'd keep a fucking eye on them.
Considering how much rhetoric incels and well known terrorist groups share, it doesn't seem unreasonable why they are included on terrorist watch lists.
Let's not forget the mass killings perpetrated by and celebrated by incels. They are an extremist group and should be monitored as such.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/13/toronto-van-murders-court-victim-2018-attack
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43892189
https://abcnews.go.com/US/ohio-incel-pleads-guilty-plotting-mass-shooting-women/story?id=91388041
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/incel-threat-secret-service-report/
The Ohio case was one were feds encouraged that guy up until the point were he was going to do something. In fact, he posted on incels.is and the feds there trump up that one case as a huge victory justifying their work. But they duped him and were egging him on. The California guy didn't actually do anything. There has been one verifiable incel related mass shooting -- Elliot Rodger, and that has been used to tarnish the whole community from a place of distaste. Feminists get to tarnish an emergent group that gives them the jeebies and feds get work to replace the dwindling War on Terror. Indeed, feds control the entirety of the incelosphere now and they self-servingly define it as a place of violence and radicalism. Some soros funded outfit that goes by the name of "Center for Countering Digital Hate" did a report on the incelsophere some months back -- but they based their report on incels.is, which is operated by feds. This is straight up lying.
Yeah, the FBI has caught bombers by monitoring them before the bombers were able to break the law.
Secretely surveiled them right up until they dropped the duffel bag on the sidewalk.
My memory isn't great right now, but I think I recall reading somewhere that they catch over a hundred would-be bombers a year.
It goes beyond secret surveillance though -- creepy enough as that is. If one were unaware of being surveilled that's one thing but they let you know so they can take credit for "prevention" even if that person wasn't going to do anything wrong. So essentially put in an open air prison without trial.
Ah... So that's what you're saying.
Well I can believe it. The CIA once tried to murder Fidel Castro with, like, shaving cream or something one time. Our agencies can go back and forth from "we are a daunting, all-knowing panopticon" into "hi, we're the Keystone Cops" a dozen times in a weekend.
If that's the case, and they're targeting someone who didn't even get in that deep, then: ouch. My condolences. I hope you if you really aren't a threat that they figure out they aren't needed anymore.
Yes but they defined a certain perspective as irredeemably linked to violence, even if that perspective is sociologically true. It's straight up repression. I'm not the one who mandated that the sexual revolution devolve into polygynous mating habits rendering many men partnerless.
what does monitoring entail? it's one thing if the person is unaware of it but they also let the person know. that's putting them in prison without trial. also that incels = violent is charged up rhetoric meant to invalidate their perspective.
they essentially put people in an open air prison (subject to intrusive monitoring) for merely sharing a perspective deemed objectionable by elites who think that perspective becoming commonplace isn't in their interest.
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