Statement from President Joe Biden on the Warrant Applications by the International Criminal Court (www.whitehouse.gov)

submitted 6 months ago by givesomefucks@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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Full statement:

The ICC prosecutor’s application for arrest warrants against Israeli leaders is outrageous. And let me be clear: whatever this prosecutor might imply, there is no equivalence — none — between Israel and Hamas. We will always stand with Israel against threats to its security.

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[-] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 87 points 6 months ago

Biden's really willing to fuck around and let trump win...

All he has do is chill out for 6 fucking months and keep his hands clean, but this is how he's always responded to people challenging him.

What sank his 88 run wasn't the plagiarism, it was how he treated reporters that would ask him about.

The more people that protest for him to stop funding a genocide, the more he's going to lash out like this, and the more voters will equate him to trump.

Which is incredibly dangerous when the most common reason for voting Biden is:

He's not trump

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 26 points 6 months ago

Biden is betting he loses more supporters if he doesn't defend Israel. I hope beyond hope that he's right, but I'm not so sure.

The larger problem is that Biden doesn't seem capable of nuance. This is a complex situation, and it would be cool to have a leader who can acknowledge that Israel has the right to exist, and has also gone too far in it's war on the Palestinian people.

There are no heroes in this story. Nobody occupies the moral highground. Innocent blood is being spilled, and the people suffering have no agency in the conflict. It's just politics and victims of political violence.

[-] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 23 points 6 months ago

It’s not nuanced at all.

Israel is committing genocide. We should not be supporting genocide.

Nobody except maybe a terrorist organization is saying Israel doesn’t have a right to exist.

[-] bamboo@lemm.ee 10 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Israel doesn’t have a right to exist. The levant is a diverse area with a rich history, and Israel looks to genocide the people that are the result of that and replace them exclusively with a single group of people that haven’t been the majority in the area for thousands of years, if ever. Jewish people deserve security and self determination but Israel isn’t it.

[-] Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 6 months ago

Nobody except maybe a terrorist organization is saying Israel doesn’t have a right to exist.

This is untrue. Theocratic apartheid ethnostates don't have a right to exist and lots of people are saying it

[-] Zehzin@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

I was saying boo-urns

[+] xhieron@lemmy.world -6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It's a safe bet, by a lot, and the calculus doesn't really change no matter how much nuance you apply, because with every statement you're always trading some nebulous number of single-issue pro-Palestine/anti-Zionist voters for a much larger group of pro-Israel/Zionist voters.

Then you have folks like the OP who are essentially working as a thinly-veiled propaganda arm of Hamas/Russia/etc., and it really muddies the signal-to-noise analysis on the issue.

It's a problem for Biden, but there's no winning. Trump doesn't have the problem only because he's not the incumbent right now, so he can hem and haw and try to deflect from the reality that he's much worse on the issue--like every other issue--for people who align even a little bit with any policies left of center.

So Biden just has to basically take the hit, because the Democrats care about functional government and stable diplomacy and foreign policy relationships, whereas the GOP, as the party of dysfunction, white grievance, and ethno-religious fascism, isn't saddled with the same considerations. Biden actually tried--and partially succeeded--in slowing down arms shipments to Israel, and the GOP threw a shitfit in Congress because they want those arms shipments: Their donors want them, and they can hang it on Biden's neck no matter what, because people like OP will continue to go to bat for them.

[-] rigatti@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago

I'm not exactly sure it's a safe bet. Hillary was a safe bet over Bernie, right? A few votes in the right areas could tip the election either way. The fact that he can't find a way to appease both the people who are against genocide and the people who are pro-Israel is worrying to me.

You are definitely right about Trump not having the same problem though. However, Trump could also say literally anything on the issue and still get support because nothing he does actually matters.

[-] xhieron@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

It's a safe bet. The number of voters Biden loses if he were to change positions enough to appease any authentic anti-Zionists (as opposed to agitprop elements, for whom no position would be good enough to silence) would dwarf the number of voters he might gain. That might not mean he gets reelected, but hell, changing positions at all would cost him votes. Like I said: all choices are bad. It would have been a political disaster for any president, because every voter who cares enough about it to be a single-issue voter is entrenched enough to not be swayed at all unless the other side is completely alienated.

He can't find a way to appease both sides? Well what does that look like? What's the position that appeases both staunch Zionist voters and the subsection of the anti-Zionist protestors who vote? That's not a rhetorical question. Every other US politics-adjacent post on Lemmy recently has been OP or one of their comrades criticizing Biden for his position on Israel, and I'm genuinely interested to hear someone articulate the nuanced position that Biden should supposedly take that he's currently failing at, and how he's supposed to do that and not immediately lose all prospects of reelection. FFS, even characterizing this as a division between "pro-Israel" and "against genocide" is already throwing nuance out the window. From where I'm sitting, Joe Biden has as nuanced a position as he can, because the nature of foreign relations in the Middle East in 2024 is itself nuanced and, for US interests, profoundly precarious. If you want nuance, you better be prepared to swallow a healthy dose of realpolitik alongside it, and that's something that as of yet I've not found any noble armchair advocates and red-shadowed "patriots" willing to do.

[-] Moonrise2473@feddit.it 62 points 6 months ago

USA: we have proof of genocide in Xinjiang, even if the local government does its best to hide it

Also USA: genocide in Gaza? What? Bibi is such a nice guy! There's not enough proof, video evidence and direct witnesses don't count

[-] Beaver@lemmy.ca 21 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Difference is: Israel has money and is seen as part of the west.

[-] Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Remember a week or two ago when Biden feigned (the correct kind of) outrage to save his election chances? I made a meme to commemorate it

[-] ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 months ago

The United States and Israel are probably the two entities least able to criticize China's response to Islamist terrorist attacks.

Everyone else? Uh sure, go nuts.

[-] zephyreks@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 months ago

That proof: 🧾

[-] ME5SENGER_24@lemmy.world 30 points 6 months ago

Fucking Biden, you literally need to do one thing correct to beat Trump. Stop giving Israel aid. For some reason people are under the assumption that Trump wouldn’t be doing worse things for the people of Palestine, but at this point Biden’s on the hot seat. Stop calling Netan-baboon Bibi, cut off his aid and let the courts bring him to justice for his crimes against Palestine. An Israeli version of Hitler isn’t a better version of Hitler, just a repackaging. Not to mention that prior to all his actions recently the dude is an absolute piece of shit who has skirted justice in his own country for years by maintaining his vice grip on the Premiership (which is exactly the playbook Trump hopes to follow if re-elected)

[-] Moneo@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

Is this true though? Don't many liberals support Israel? Are there actual polls that show Biden would benefit from taking a stance against Israel? Genuinely asking.

[-] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 3 points 6 months ago

Seems to me that the people who support Israel unconditionally fall into two groups: The people who'd never vote for him no matter what he does (Republicans), and people who have no choice but to vote for him no matter what he does (Democrats). He can't gain any votes by giving aid to Israel.

[-] febra@lemmy.world 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

And this is why the rules based international order was always a farce. Only third world countries need to play by the rules, while western powers just override them and do as they please.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 15 points 6 months ago

The United States or Israel, which is it to be, Joe?

[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 12 points 6 months ago

Jesus fucking christ he just cannot read the room. He’s going to throw the whole fucking thing.

[-] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 9 points 6 months ago

Meanwhile his supporters will be having a meltdown and blaming student protesters.

[-] HessiaNerd@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

The election? How does this stance differentiate him from his opponent?

[-] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 1 points 6 months ago

It doesn’t, which is the problem.

[-] Phegan@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

Common L

[-] Drusas@kbin.run 4 points 6 months ago

Good thing his opinion doesn't matter.

[-] AshMan85@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

Arrest little hitler!

this post was submitted on 20 May 2024

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