My existing mid-drive Class 3 ebike weights 95 lbs (43 kg) loaded. What could I replace it with? (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 5 months ago by litchralee@sh.itjust.works to c/micromobility@lemmy.world

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The title describes the gist of things. In 18 months of owning my Bikonit MD750, I've traveled over 2100 km (1300 miles) in day, night, and rain; swapped out four sets of tires trying to lower the rolling resistance; built my own new set of 29" wheels with ebike-speed rated tires; and have taken it on mixed-mode adventures by using light-rail as my range extender.

It's the latter where the weight is a small issue, as the light rail train has three stairsteps onboard, which I have to carry the bike up and onto. 43 kg is kinda a lot, although that does include all the things I will need for a day out. I can pursue getting stronger to lift it more easily, or convincing the transit department to acquire low-floor trains, but I'd like to know my options:

What are some Class 3, mid-drive ebikes currently available in the USA, that weigh less than 43 kg (95 lbs)? Ideally, less than 25 kg (55 lbs) too, as that's the most common weight restriction for buses. I want to see what y'all can recommend, irrespective of price or range or other considerations.

I'm not likely to terminate my investment in this current ebike, as it's provided sterling service thus far. But I wonder if maybe what I have has already been outmoded by the latest developments in this ever-changing slice of the mobility space.

TY in advance!

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[-] pc486@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 months ago

95lbs is quite a bit of weight! I totally understand the desire to get something lighter and easier to deal with. It's one reason why I recently got an acoustic folder.

A significant amount of weight comes from the battery and motor. Reducing weight to <50lbs means going for a smaller battery and likely a smaller motor.

In other words, consider going to class 1 or 2. There are more road and commuter bikes in that class which meet that weight target. For example, Trek's FX+ 2 at just over 40lbs. Smaller batteries also mean less expense, so perhaps you'll keep your existing bike instead of selling it. Then you'll be able to choose the right bike for the day's plan. :)

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago

I currently have an acoustic bike and this ebike. What I'm hoping to avoid is N+1 Syndrome, which is the desire to have N+1 bikes, where N is the current number of bikes lol

But I think you're right that the 25 kg target for a Class 3 with appreciable range may be tough to find. I'm in the fortunate position where I can take bus and/or light-rail with the acoustic bike no-problem, or can run the ebike for 20 km to the light-rail station and still have range at the end of the line. It may be too much of a stretch to have the features of both bikes: lots of range plus full compatibility with transit.

[-] pc486@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 months ago

Hah! I said "thanks for helping me solve my N+1 problem" to the sales guy at my LBS after walking out the door with the folder. More bikes is always the right answer! 🤣

Yeah, I can see you're trying to thread the needle here. It's going to be tough. Opening up your parameters is at least a decent start towards filling a spreadsheet of potential bikes.

[-] njordomir@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

If you want to give up weight, you'll likely have to give up some power. I bought a Specialized Turbo Vado SL a few years ago and it's 35 lbs, class 3 with 35mm tires. I've seen people fit larger ones, but I bought this thing for the weight.

It's class 3 and fairly light, but it won't drag me up the side of a mountain without my help. It was still worth it to me because I wanted a light bike that I could keep riding after running out of power. My partner bought me a nice solid basket that I fill up in the store and it clicks right into the rack so I can carry some groceries, 2 locks, a backpack, etc. I would guess with the basket, fenders, extra lights, and a coat of dust it would probably weigh within a pound or two of your limit.

All that to point out that you can go lighter, but there may be a tradeoff. I think the other folks who suggested different ways of carrying the bike probably have more affordable short-term solutions than acquiring more bikes... though less fun. :)

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

Surprisingly, my acoustic bike already pushes 20 kg (44 lbs) despite being manufactured as an 11 kg (24 lbs) bike. Basically, I travel with way too many things in my saddle bags. But better to have and not need haha

With the 29" tires, I'm able to ride the ebike at a useful rate (15-20 kph, 9-13 mph) if the battery is flat, although it certainly isn't anything resembling nimbleness because of its mass. This is much slower than the acoustic bike's "default" pedaling speed of 20-25 kph.

Power is something which I'm more attuned to trading away, as I don't need to traverse any particularly steep hills. But I think you're right that there may be substantial compromises to keep weight below the 55 lbs figure, more than I might be able to accept. And all would mean acquiring another ebike.

I guess I need to get swole lol

[-] njordomir@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

I hear you on the storage. I just bought a new mountain bike, I was flabbergasted that a lot/most of trail bikes don't have mount points for a rack. How am I supposed to carry all my stuff off road? Im not oblivious to the fact that I bought a sport focused bike, but ut would be nice to have the option if I wanted to travel further and with a little bit of cargo. At the very least I need 2 locks, my wallet, keys, phone, extra layer for when it gets cold, puncture kit, snacks, water. I also didn't expect to notice how different the weight and center of gravity was compared to the ebike, but it's obvious even when I'm shuffling them around the garage.

Having said that, if anyone frowns on you potentially acquiring another bike you can tell them Lemmy thought it was a good idea. :P

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 3 points 5 months ago

Marin Sausalito 2 or Specialized Turbo Vado might be good options.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago

Both of these absolutely meet the request for Class 3 and mid-drive. Thanks!

There appears to definitely be a tradeoff between cost, weight, and battery capacity. But that's exactly the tradeoff I wanted to quantify, since both these candidates are in a similar price range ($2750-$3000) and are in the same weight ballpark (21-26 kg).

This suggests that additional range would result in more cost and more weight, and these two candidates are already on the cusp of the bike rack with capacity of American buses. Perhaps then my situation can't be optimized much further by replacing the bike.

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 3 points 5 months ago

Oh, btw, if cost is more of a concern than range (again, you can always get a second battery), the Ride1UP Prodigy Brose Mid-Drive is on sale like now for like $1200-1300. Pretty good deal for a mid drive IMO.

Keep an eye on the sports/cycling section of slickdeals.net and you might see something that looks ideal for your purposes.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago

Ride1UP Prodigy Brose Mid-Drive

Another qualifying candidate, thanks!

[-] FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You can definitely get lighter stuff but yeah, a huge chunk of the bike's weight is the battery and the bike you have looks like it has a massive amount of battery capacity. The greater the weight, the harder it is to pedal if you run out of battery too.

If you want something lighter (I would), I'd recommend considering the lightest bikes that still have at least 10 miles more than your longest round trip (keep in mind, companies often give optimistic range estimates and the cold will further reduce range, the more you and your gear weigh the more it will go down).

Price itself does not necessarily dictate range (or even necessarily quality), but quality ebikes aren't cheap. Your other option if you wanted to save money would be to start with a good regular bicycle, then add a motor and batter that meet your needs though greater battery capacity will always push up weight and cost.

At the end of the day it's all about compromise, but you could also consider just carrying a spare battery to boost your range. A lot of people do that.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago

The greater the weight, the harder it is to pedal if you run out of battery too.

Agree 100%. Although I haven't had too much of an issue pedaling my MD750 without assist, usually when around parks or other areas where this ebike's noise would be undesirable. From maintaining my acoustic bike, I make sure my ebike's drivetrain is efficient under pedal power, since any inefficiencies will only get worse when adding electric assist. It's one of the reasons I like mid-drives, since they're tuned basically like a normal bike would be.

At the end of the day it's all about compromise, but you could also consider just carrying a spare battery to boost your range

I do like this idea, and it's probably the most sensible for most riders. At the same time, I once saw that electric motorbike riders use this sort of thing, and I can't help but imagine the doors that would open it I could quickly charge in the field. Circling the entire metro area using free EV chargers becomes a real possibility, assuming the charging was timed to other stops like having lunch or meeting people.

[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

43 kg isnt nothing, but its also not really that much for me, a 6'0 200lb guy who lifts (we know nothing about your physiology, so I'm aware this may not apply)

I'd say it might make sense to look into small things you could do to make lifting the weight easier. Something as simple as adding attatchment points for a thick shoulder strap so you can throw the strap over your shoulder to squat the weight using your legs and core instead of trying to muscle it with just your arms.

Or adding grab points or pads so you have more optimal lifting points to make shifting the weight less awkward.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

It's the height of the bike which makes its 43 kg somewhat cumbersome. I basically have to lift the front higher than the rear to clear the first steps, and the heft of the dual-battery down tube doesn't give me a lot of options for grabbing the bike lower down.

So I've mostly been grabbing the handlebars and seat tube, but I might try your suggestion to squat the whole bike from below. It might not be the most normal thing to do at a light-rail station, but that hasn't stopped me before lol

[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

Not so much squatting the bike from below, a strap from the seat tube to the headstock would give you good height adjustment to get it high enough to make getting it up the stairs easier but not so high your lifting it needlessly high, if you're shorter or its still really awkward it also might be worth trying a barbell pad around the top bar of the frame putting your arm through the triangle, squatting down and hoisting it onto your shoulder. See whats more comfortable.

Forget how "normal" it looks to others, its a not insignificant weight and lifting it awkwardly is asking for injury.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

Ah, now I understand what you mean. I'll give it a go! Thanks!

[-] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Your ebike is a monster lol. Look at ebikes from the regular bike manufacturers like Tern, Specialized, Marin, Trek, etc. Ride1up makes good budget stuff too. There's Lectric as well, the One looks interesting and should be out by this Fall. Those would all be significantly lighter than your bike.

There's kind of a point of diminishing returns with batteries in terms of size and weight so ideally, your battery should be maybe a little bigger than necessary to get you to your destinations under the worst conditions (i.e. it's freezing out, maybe snowy or muddy) but not much bigger.

Good luck!

[-] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago

I don't know what class 3 means but 43kg is heavy as fuck. My mid-drive, full size eFatBike weights 24kg.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

From the specs of your ebike, it appears to be limited to 25 kph (15 mph). That might explain the substantial weight difference, as Class 1 or 2 ebikes will frequently weigh well below 20 kg (44 lbs), often with reduced range of only 40-60 km, which sounds in-line with your bike's specs.

I once rode a USA Class 1 ebike continuously until the 700 Wh battery was uncomfortably empty, and traveled 37 miles (60 km) at 20 mph (32 kph) average, despite the manufacturer rating of only 33 miles (53 km).

Because of the distances I wish to cover, and for a fair comparison with my existing ebike, I am only considering Class 3, 45 kph-capable ebikes.

[-] Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago

Yeah the realistic range on my bike is around 40 kilometers at max.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 months ago

In the USA, ebikes use a three-tier classification, originally articulated by federal import laws and then incorporated into state laws, which govern what sort of ebikes are allowed on the streets and bike lanes of that state. California adopted the federal ebike classes verbatim: https://www.calbike.org/california-e-bike-classifications/

A Class 3 ebike is a pedal-assisted ebike, providing assist up to 45 kph (28 mph), using a motor rated up to 750 W continuous. This is roughly analogous to the speed of an "S-pedelec" in Europe, although a USA Class 3 ebike is not a moped and does not require license and registration, and the USA enforces a lower power limit than the 1 kW or 4 kW limit for "S-pedelecs".

[-] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago

If you have to bring it on busses and stuff, have you considered something like the Tern Vektron S10 or an electric Brompton? Packalope? Does it need to be a huge bike? The thing you have now is absolutely massive. My EP-2 Pro is 66 lbs base weight and I already consider that chonky - 90+ lbs seems crazy to me.

[-] litchralee@sh.itjust.works 0 points 5 months ago

When I first got my bike, I had never even taken my acoustic bike onto a bus. But now that I have, I realize that transit circling the metro area is an asset for longer bike rides. But since this isn't for a regular commute, I think a folding bike might be unnecessarily small -- size wise -- if I assume the bus's bike rack is always available.

You're absolutely right that if I had to board a bus or train regardless of crowding, then the compact, folding frame would be paramount.

That said, if a folding Class 3 ebike is already in the 50-70 lbs range, then perhaps a lighter, fixed frame wouldn't save appreciable weight. That might be why my particular requirement to keep below 55 lbs might not be readily available.

Nevertheless, thanks for the data point about your ES-2 Pro!

[-] DudeImMacGyver@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 months ago

They do sell full size folding bikes FYI

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