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I think thread deletion is problematic and needs some consideration and changes (lemmy.world)
submitted 3 months ago by MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world to c/fediverse@lemmy.world
27 comments fedilink hide all child comments

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/17779430

A large percentage of threads I've created or participated in have been deleted. Worse is that when visiting the URL everything is completely gone.

This is much more drastic when compared with Reddit thread deletions, where the thread is there and so is the discussion. And the creator of the thread has access to their content.

The Lemmy method discourages people from participating in threads and creating high-quality content, much more so than the Reddit method.

A bunch of lively and useful discussions on Lemmy have completely disappeared. And it makes it seem like a waste of time to even contribute content here.

EDIT: I see that the "fediverse" link for posts has been removed. I posted this to lemmy.ml from a lemmy.world account and there's no way for me to get the lemmy.ml link now. And when I crosspost it it shows a lemmy.world link instead of the lemmy.ml one. I think this should be changed [back].

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[-] halm@leminal.space 41 points 3 months ago

A quick look in the modlog shows that less than a year ago moderators deleted a post you wrote called

Reddit is dangerous. The admins are out of control. Humanity needs a viable alternative. – Blog covering the Reddit admins retaliating against me

(The emphasis is mine)

Looks like you have a history of writing inflammatory posts, feeling persecuted about them being removed, and then going off on rants about it.

Some people may take a dump in public spaces, but don't call for changes to civic statutes so that their shit can be preserved for perpetuity. Please follow that example.

[-] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 21 points 3 months ago

It's always the people who don't want to admit their opinions aren't just rejected by a platform, but by the society as a whole. There's a reason they feel rejected, it's because they are. We reject hateful inflammatory things at a societal level, and they feel "persecuted" when they're called out for their bad beliefs.

We don't want them here, we don't want them there. If the problem is following you site to site, the problem isn't the sites, it's your beliefs.

[-] kitnaht@lemmy.world 10 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Weird that applies to some people and not others....I know plenty of people who's opinions were rejected by society, and I'm told every day that I must accept their opinions...

I've heard this same argument used against LGBT individuals, Palestinians, Jews, etc...

So what makes this guy less deserving? Because he has a contrary opinion to you? The things being deleted are not Nazi propaganda. They aren't even hateful. They're just discussions that people disagree with...and because they're disagreed with, they get removed. Mods should not be removing things due to editorial opinion. If people don't like it, that's what the downvote button is for.

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago

It's exceedingly bizarre how many people on Lemmy rush to defend Reddit and attack other Lemmy users for anything possible.

This thread had absolutely nothing to do with that, yet you somehow dug through months of mod logs to find the one thread that would allow to you attack me.

"You have a history of being inflammatory towards Reddit on Lemmy! This is not acceptable behavior on Lemmy!"

[-] SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 20 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

"My posts keep getting deleted!"

— user looks into public info to find out why your posts might be being deleted —

"Shut up, r×ddit defender!!!"

If you really want to know, I've seen a lot of people just delete their old posts for privacy reasons. Trying to keep that internet footprint out of sight.

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago

“My posts keep getting deleted!”

— user looks into public info to find out why your posts might be being deleted —

Nice try, but that's deceptive. This thread was not about my personal posts. I even gave an example of a recent thread (that I did not make) with hundreds of comments. You're further proving my point.

[-] SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 16 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

My guy: it's literally the first line of your linked post.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 3 points 3 months ago

I love your flare

[-] SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 months ago

Thanks! I miss the feel of old image boards and niche forums.

In this case, I think highlighting the absolute goofiness of this entire thread fits well into the theme.

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago

That's a lot of effort you're putting into something that can easily disappear at any point.

That is the point of this thread. You've chosen to deceptively magnify one part of it to twist things for your own purpose, which also seems to be a primary purpose of a lot of people on Lemmy -- antagonizing other Lemmy users.

[-] best_username_ever@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 months ago

I even gave an example

You haven’t given an example. Where are your sources?

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

How are you supposed to link to a source when it's completely deleted?

You can see it in my profile though:

@MaximilianKohler to Ask Lemmy Ex Redditors of Lemmy what made you come on over? What happened at Reddit that you made the switch? • 5 days ago

This is the link and it looks like it's been restored https://lemmy.world/post/17593614

I looked in the mod log https://lemmy.world/modlog/3106 and it says:

4 hours ago mod Restored Post Ex Redditors of Lemmy what made you come on over? What happened at Reddit that you made the switch? reason: restoring post as it was deleted as a result of the user getting instance banned from lemmy.ml

There is no log of why/when it was removed.

I looked up another one from https://lemmy.world/c/nostupidquestions titled "Where's all the intelligent discussion at?", which was removed for rule 7. I don't agree with the removal reason, but none of this is relevant to the point of the OP. You guys are sidetracking.

[-] flamingos@feddit.uk 11 points 3 months ago

EDIT: I see that the “fediverse” link for posts has been removed. I posted this to lemmy.ml from a lemmy.world account and there’s no way for me to get the lemmy.ml link now. And when I crosspost it it shows a lemmy.world link instead of the lemmy.ml one. I think this should be changed [back].

That's how it's always worked??? The fediverse button goes to the canonical source, which is the post on the poster's instance. The button doesn't show up because you're already looking at the source.

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

That’s how it’s always worked??? The fediverse button goes to the canonical source

Maybe it didn't exist on posts but only comments? I see it on your comment but not the OP/thread.

[-] Nothing4You@programming.dev 11 points 3 months ago

The "fediverse link" on a post always points to the instance of the person who posted it, not the community instance. When posting from a lemmy.world account this means the fedilink is always the lemmy.world post link.

It is only shown for content coming from remote instances in Lemmy UI 0.19.3, although a later version changed that to always show.

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

The “fediverse link” on a post

I'm only seeing those links on comments, not the thread. Has it always been like that?

"The instance of the person who posted it" seems to be reasonable for comments, but not the thread.

[-] Bezier@suppo.fi 5 points 3 months ago

"The instance of the person who posted it" seems to be reasonable for comments, but not the thread.

I think it is not only reasonable, but better this way. The canonical server is the one the post originates from. Each server is responsible only for its own users and their content.

I don't see any difference between posts and comments either. Why is one ok and the other not?

[-] Nothing4You@programming.dev 3 points 3 months ago

it doesn't matter whether you consider it reasonable, as it's this way for technical reasons.

when a post or comment are created they are created on the users instance. the users instance then tells the community instance about the new post/comment and the community instance relays (announces) this to other instances that have community subscribers.

the fedilink is an id and reference to the original item. this unique id is known to all servers that know about this comment and it is what is used when updates to the post are distributed. except for the reference to the item on the originating instance, no instance stores information about where to find a specific post/comment on a random other instance.

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world -2 points 3 months ago

It sounds like you're saying it's impossible, but I'm doubtful of that. Currently there is no fediverse link for the thread, so I think one could be added that links to the lemmy.ml post. I crossposted from lemmy.ml and the crosspost should say so.

If the devs conclude it's not possible or wanted, that's fine. But this is my feedback.

[-] Nothing4You@programming.dev 2 points 3 months ago

I'm not saying it's technically impossible, although it would likely be a bit challenging to integrate on the technical level, as the community instance has no authority to modify the post itself other than removing it from the community at this point.

The existing fedilink is already present for technical reasons anyway, so this is currently only showing existing data.

Why would you want a lemmy.ml link though? On Lemmy you're typically intending to stay on your own instance, which many third party apps already implement. For Lemmy UI there is already a feature request to implement this, although it might still take some time to get done. If you have the canonical link to an object (which will always point to the users instance) Lemmy can look up which post/comment you're referring to in its db without any network calls when it already knows about the entry. If you were linking to the lemmy.ml version of that post then the instance would first have to do a network request to resolve that and then it would realize it's actually the lemmy.world version that it may or may not know about already.

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world -1 points 3 months ago

Why would you want a lemmy.ml link though?

That's where the thread is. It was created on lemmy.ml and crossposted to lemmy.world. When crossposting from lemmy.ml to lemmy.world it says "crossposted from lemmy.world", which is wrong and confusing, and defeats the purpose of crossposting (informing people about similar communities or other instances).

[-] Nothing4You@programming.dev 7 points 3 months ago

Except it wasn't created on lemmy.ml, it was created on lemmy.world.

lemmy.world then informed lemmy.ml that it is intended to be published in the community that it was created for.

It doesn't say "crossposted from lemmy.world" but "crossposted from canonical_post_url". This is not wrong in any way, although it might be a bit confusing and could likely be improved by including a reference to the community. The instance domain should for the most part just be a technical detail there.

It should also be noted that this format of crossposting is an implementation detail of Lemmy-UI and other clients may handle it differently (if they're implementing crossposting in the first place).

[-] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 3 months ago

People care way too much about stupid internet threads.

They get deleted. Yawn.

Sometimes you gotta purge some fucking Nazi shit and its easier to just dump the whole thing down the loo. Sorry, not sorry.

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world 9 points 3 months ago

I've never seen "nazi shit" on Lemmy. The threads that have been deleted have all seemed on-topic with normal discussions taking place. The last one was a "what made you leave reddit?" thread with hundreds of comments.

[-] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 7 points 3 months ago

If you're referring to the post Ex Redditors of Lemmy what made you come on over? What happened at Reddit that you made the switch?, their account was banned for trolling and all content associated with the account was removed.

Some examples of their post titles, that likely contributed to their ban

  • African Americans (I hope that PC) have you ever gotten the N word tossed at you and how did you react or feel?
  • How come in most games including the community of gaming I can't mention the word Nazi for have a civil conversation?

They also had a number of other posts that seemed to be doing just fine, so it might be falling in the "stupid kid" category.

The post has since been restored by a community moderator, although the user's account on lemmy.ml is still banned: https://lemmy.world/post/17593614

[-] MaximilianKohler@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Yep, that was one of them. Do you think that's a good mechanism to automatically delete all user's content when they get banned? Those example titles you shared don't seem like obvious trolling nor obviously worthy of an account ban, and the collateral damage of deleting valid & popular threads seems bad.

[-] MrKaplan@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago

It's not automatic, admins have the option to ban with or without content removal.

Different instances deal with this differently and admins are also humans that sometimes make mistakes. Especially during holiday season there are frequently trolls running around with racist, transphobic or other offensive content. Sometimes they're more obvious, sometimes they try to fly under the radar a bit by being less direct. In the end you're at the mercy of the instance admins of the instance you signed up with and many instances will provide contact information to appeal bans.

Since this account was not a Lemmy.World account it's not up to us to decide whether or not the user should be banned and whether their content should be removed.

this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2024
33 points (72.0% liked)

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