Ukraine war will end in surrender : worldnews

[-] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 51 points 3 months ago

I still can't get over how over half a million people have died for genuinely stupid reasons. Ukrainian militias were literally committing a genocide in Donbas and all the Ukrainian government had to do was behave like any other country on the planet and take those terrorists out; it's literally their job and all that's required is they apply their existing laws. You also had NATO taunting Russia and Ukraine actually playing along.

I don't even know how many of the original damn terrorists who were mass murdering people in Donbas are even still around; all Ukraine had to do was be normal. There could have been peace earlier but we blocked it; I don't even know how that works, why the hell did Ukraine go along with that?

Over half a million lives lost and the conflict extended for such stupid reasons. If Ukraine can see what the end looks like, then why are you prolonging the inevitable? The sunk cost?

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 48 points 3 months ago

This all goes back to the fall of USSR, and ongoing tragedy that's still killing people today.

[-] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 36 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

"The bombings do work! The bombings are working! They know what they are doing. Just because you don't know what they're doing doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. Of course they know what they are doing... The bombings are achieving what they are supposed to - which is to destroy Yugoslavia, to turn it into a de-industrialized, beggar-poor nation of cheap labor, completely defenseless to the interests of capital investors. This is a batterist policy! The batterer is not irrational, the batterer uses violence against his helpless spouse. He uses just a certain amount or level to get a certain response - and batters that person down and batters that person down. And that's what it is - it's a battering policy, to destroy and smash 'em down, but smash 'em and splinter them so badly that they will never rise again and never come back again even as a viable bourgeois nation, let alone socialist." -- Michael Parenti

[-] Beat_da_Rich@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 3 months ago

Liberal: "Russia is colonizing Ukraine!"

Meanwhile the majority of the country is now owned by Blackrock.

[-] landlords_morghulis@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 3 months ago

I'd love to see the next Ukrainian government (assuming the world doesn't end first) just re-seize all those sold-off assets for the state. NATO would probably just implode.

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 36 points 3 months ago

Literally everything Eastern Europe has to do is to stop praising, supporting and building monuments for fucking nazis and be normal, really hard part for a lot of them.

[+] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml -12 points 3 months ago

We fucking did do that and you people had to go on a protracted war against us. Fuck off.

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 3 months ago

[+] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml -9 points 3 months ago

Look up the Soviet block and the cold war

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 3 months ago

This is about post-USSR Eastern Europe

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 3 months ago

How did it get there?

Who kept financing far right and nationalist movements, first amongst émigrés and then as soon as the iron curtain fell amongst soviet people?

Who made up all the anti-communist propaganda, turned natural disasters into genocides, financed "education" programs, "museums" like the occupation museum on Tbilisi, etc?

Who enforced neoliberal policies, shock therapy, etc?

Soviet people voted against dissolution of the USSR but comprador politicians ignored that, then Russian people were going to elect Zyuganov but US soft-couped him and stole the election for Yeltsin.

Who fucking financed Maidan and organised a coup? There's literally a recording of Nuland deciding which politician gets what position in Ukrainian govt.

Then Ukrainian people elected Zelensky to make a deal with Russia which he tried to do, what happened to that?

And then """"leftist"""" yanks will bumble around asking "why can't those Eastern Europeans just be normal like the rest of the world?

Fuck right off, all of you.

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 months ago

I know all of that.

And then “”““leftist””“” yanks will bumble around asking "why can’t those Eastern Europeans just be normal like the rest of the world?

Fuck right off, all of you.

Where do you think I'm from? lmao

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml -3 points 3 months ago

A yank started the whole " why can't Ukraine just be normal" thing, I can tell cause only a yank would refer to his homeland simply as "our country" without feeling the need to clarify which fucking country.

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 3 months ago

Right from the middle of this shithole called Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro and Macedonia which was previously Yugoslavia:

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml -4 points 3 months ago

You're from Yugoslavia of all places, you frequent a communist space, and you believe much of Eastern Europe is a Nazi hellhole because that's just how Eastern Europeans are, abnormal?

Who's normal? Yank leftists voting for a guy who bombed Yugoslavia cause "harm reduction"?

[-] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 months ago

I have to endure and watch this shit every single fucking day: casual racism, homophobia, transphobia, aphobia, biphobia, sexism, abnormal religious fanaticism, watch monuments and praise for genocidal monarchs, nazi butchers and war criminals on every turn, get accused of 'satanism' on a daily basis, talking about conspiracy theories only someone high on heroin would say every single time a wind blows a bit harsher and that's only these 4 and especially Serbia and most of these people are anti-west. And do I even need to get started on Baltics and co for example?

We WERE normal, now definitely not.

[-] landlords_morghulis@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 3 months ago

Obviously the answer is the US. We all know that. Doesn't mean there isn't a huge domestic nazi problem, either. As much as it saddens me, the historical presence of those forces is fertile soil for western imperialism and will continue to be so until the prevailing social current is to fight fascism rather than collaborate with it.

Not blaming Ukrainian voters, but we should also just accept by this point that Zelenskyy tricked a lot of people into believing he wanted to reunify the country and (somewhat) normalize things with Russia. "Electing" a US-coup puppet was never going to end well, regardless of the vibes. I do think, however, most people who did vote for him were honestly believed they were voting to end the atrocities.

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 months ago

Ok so then what about this?

Literally everything Eastern Europe has to do is to stop praising, supporting and building monuments for fucking nazis and be normal, really hard part for a lot of them.

Does that ring true to you or is there more to it than Eastern Europeans being abnormal?

Is being normal really "everything Eastern Europe has to do", or are there maybe some changes needed in the west for that normality to happen?

[-] landlords_morghulis@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 3 months ago

No, I'm not supporting that statement. It's too reductive and I understand why you have some very raw nerves on the subject; I certainly do.

I think we may be interpreting the intent a little differently, though. I mostly feel like I'm just helplessly drowning in sadness and horror in front of a screen all the time, and I generally try to cope with satire or sarcasm. I try to avoid being quite this glib or insensitive, but I probably fuck that up a lot, too. Reads that way to me at least.

[-] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 months ago

why can’t those Eastern Europeans just be normal like the rest of the world

Now that I think about it... Let's define "normal". Does a country that:

conducted over 300 interventions (including wars/invasions, coups, acts of political meddling, sabotage and terrorism) since 1776
inflicted more deaths and suffering cumulatively (directly or indirectly) than any empire in history
supported and/or inspired virtually all reactionary anti-communist and colonial movements in existence - monarchists, fascists (including the Nazis), the Contras, the Zionists, you name it
crushed the majority of governments that were attempting economic sovereignty, let alone socialist transition
nazified many former socialist countries to oblivion, at least partially for the sake of punishing them for the impunity of revolution
went ahead and plundered the entire world

meet the definition of "normal"?

All I can say is... If we, Eastern Europeans, are not normal, then surely the country in question doesn't meet the definition of normality either. And I'm not trying to absolve the Banderites or the neo-Ustase or whoever from responsibility - they all should get the wall, but... If you want to be insanely reductive, at the very least do it in a materialist way.

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 3 months ago

Westoids will pump cash into Nazis for decades, organise a coup, install a puppet government, tell them exactly what to do, and then say "why can't they just be normal" and "we only gave them freedom and look what those savages did with it".

Fuck you and everyone who upvoted you. Bunch of westoid removed.

[-] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 18 points 3 months ago

I've posted about our country's role in this and Europe joining in wholeheartedly in the past and our country being the architect behind this (do a search of my name and the word architect), but I do apologize if I've been offensive in my wording. Our country crafts problems like this all the time and then does as you've said, blame the country they corrupted and it's people; it wasn't my intent to speak ill of the Ukrainian people, just the puppet government currently in charge, that ought to have some sense of self preservation at least despite being nazi or nazi adjacent, but of course as puppets they never would have been allowed to stop this war from starting. I just wish Zelensky would have the guts to cut the strings and try to stop his country going down this path, regardless of what consequences it would have, it doesn't help that he's also shut down oppositional parties (leftist ones).

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Sorry for the double reply but:

all Ukraine had to do was be normal.

it wasn't my intent to speak ill of the Ukrainian people,

Yeah it was, you just refuse to understand why your sincere opinion was deeply ignorant and offensive.

just the puppet government currently in charge

I just wish Zelensky would have the guts

Do you even know what a puppet is? Also, WHO'S FUCKING PUPPET?

Literally the only thing Ukraine needs to "be normal" is YANKS FUCKING OFF

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 3 months ago

Literally the only thing Ukraine needs to “be normal” is YANKS FUCKING OFF

This. US intervene in Ukraine in every decade (1991, 2004, 2014, 2022) and the reason is always that Ukrainians try to not even be antiimperialist but just to normalise their relations with Russia.

[-] miz@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 3 months ago

and Operation Aerodynamic started in 1953 and ran for decades

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 months ago

Dziękuję, mało mi żyłka nie pękła

[-] Red_Scare@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 3 months ago

You're just repeating the same ignorant thing again and the rest of fucking yanks upvoting you like a bunch of clapping seals.

Ukrainian people elected Zelensky on the mandate of making a deal with Russia which he tried to do but you fucks blocked it repeatedly.

But you're so ignorant you'll just say "I don't know how this works and why Ukraine went along with it" so of course from your brain-dead perspective "all Ukraine had to do was to be normal".

Also fuck off with constantly repeating "our country" like I'm supposed to know where you're from, people outside Amerikkka fucking exist, exceptionalism pouring out your every sentence.

[-] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 3 months ago

pump cash into Nazis for decades, organise a coup, install a puppet government

You know the person you're talking to (1) opposed this and (2) had zero control over it, right?

[-] MatBC@lemmygrad.ml 44 points 3 months ago

A surprise to no one who has even a superficial understanding of the conflict

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 41 points 3 months ago

which sadly excludes vast majority of western public

[-] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 28 points 3 months ago

Just have to translate it into Westoid. "War Will End in Vibes Based Non-Defeat"

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 3 months ago

In Polish: "It will be moral victory" and i'm not shitting you, this is how our media and to some extent even historians are portraying each of our myriad L's.

[-] Addfwyn@lemmygrad.ml 24 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

The western public will look at the headline, that is the extent of their attention span, and cheer over the fact that the article must mean that Russia is surrendering.

In the interview, Zelensky said there can’t be direct negotiations between Ukraine and Russia but there could be indirect negotiations through a third party.

I know that diplomacy is not exactly his background, but it should be fairly obvious to anyone that a requirement of negotiation is that you are actually willing to talk to the people you are intended to negotiate with. This is this crazy international relations theory we call "common sense".

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 21 points 3 months ago

lol it might just be his way of saying that he doesn't actually make any decisions and Russia has to talk to his bosses in the US

[-] landlords_morghulis@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 months ago

On the other hand, if Zelenskyy negotiates peace directly, the next NATO-proxy government will just throw it out because his presidency is illegitimate. Which could be used to buy the time the Kiev regime has been looking for. Seems to be why Russia recently said they are open to peace talks, but consider trusting Ukraine to be impossible.

[-] Addfwyn@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 months ago

This is true, I honestly don't know how you can negotiate with nato/western forces in good faith at all anymore. Even outside of Ukraine, they've shown that they don't place any value in their word (see: Germany admitting they never had any intention of honouring the Minsk Agreements). That kind of admission severely tarnishes any future diplomatic overtures.

[-] landlords_morghulis@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 3 months ago

Just in the last few years, looking at the deliberate efforts of cutting off all diplomatic relations with Russia. Banning and smearing all foreign opposition media. Assassination of diplomats. Rampant militarized racism. Trade wars. Mass sanctioning and coups of any nation who opposes US war interests. Endlessly blocking UN efforts. Endlessly blocking hostage negotiations. Constant escalations... It really establishes that the US and it's allies have completely lost interest in any form of diplomacy and seem to be preemptively closing those exits just to keep any form of diplomatic resolution off the table, thus ensuring a hot world war to keep the military economy running.

[-] Guamer@hexbear.net 25 points 3 months ago

Yeah, Russia's surrender

spoiler

/s

[-] TankieTanuki@hexbear.net 21 points 3 months ago

the Donbas town of New York

cat-confused

[-] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 3 months ago

I think we've already had this article here - here's the old post. Is it the same one?

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 3 months ago

oh yeah you're right, I totally forgot running across it a month ago 😅

[-] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 3 months ago

Ehh... The article is well-written - concise and to the point, it deserves to be reposted :D.

[-] yogthos@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 3 months ago

yeah, it's kind of refreshing to see such an open admission in more or less mainstream western media

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