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submitted 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) by LeylaLove@hexbear.net to c/neurodiverse@hexbear.net

Hey, I'm Leyla, moderator of /c/drugs and very knowledgeable on shit people put into their bodies. Someone the other day made a post questioning if supplements actually do anything. I think this is a very good question, there's a lot of marketing BS behind vitamins and minerals, it's difficult to separate the useful from the useless (and if it's useless, it's probably harmful in some ways). While there is a lot of marketing that deludes information, some supplements and vitamins are still quite helpful and worth investing in. The ones that are worth it are normally pretty cheap too. I'll order these from most universally applicable to least universally applicable, meaning the stuff on the top will probably apply to you, while the stuff at the bottom will be for more specific issues. Obviously I'll specify the issues in the paragraphs. Also, while I will provide sources for what I say, I will say that a lot of this is lived experience.

Vitamin B12

In my opinion, Vitamin B12 is the most important thing you should go pick up. You can get a month or two's supply at the dollar store, and is the one I have personally seen make the most difference in both myself and people around me. Here's an abstract that mentions the side effects of B12 deficiency. To put it into more understandable words, B12 deficiency is known to cause

  • Apathy/Depression

  • Irritability

  • Dissociation

  • Insomnia

  • Low energy

  • Visual and auditory hallucinations

  • Paranoid delusions

  • Failing memory

  • There's also evidence that people with proper B12 supply in their body have lower rates of Alzheimers.

B12 deficiency has REALLY major side effects. This is especially true if you're a drinker or drug user, as most drugs (alcohol is a drug) run through B12 like crazy. However I know someone who is on the spectrum and fully straight edge (no drugs or alcohol besides caffeine pills), whose entire life and personality turned around after getting on B12. To be clear, I'm NOT saying B12 deficiency is sole cause of your issues in neurodivergence, but what I am saying is that B12 deficiency is enough to make those issues feel impossible to work through. Taking B12 regularly has reduced the amount I dissociate, I have way more energy and focus throughout the day, and my symptoms of schizophrenia have greatly improved. B12 didn't "cure" me being schizophrenic and autistic, I am who I am. But the effects of B12 deficiency were definitely weighing on me before I got back on it. If you only decide to pick up one thing from this guide, it should be this.

Edit: @LaGG_3@hexbear.net left a comment suggesting that vegans take extra care to take B12, as the diet is apparently low in B12. I'm not vegan so I can't speak from personal experience, but everything I look into seems to support this claim. If you question if you should take B12, the answer is you probably should. Worse case scenario, you just piss it out. Like I said, this isn't going to cure your depression and dissociation, but if you're struggling with those B12 certainly won't hurt.

@ReadFanon@hexbear.net wanted to add that if you're a whippit (nitrous) person, you extra need to be taking this or risk giving yourself MS via B12 deficiency. Seriously, drugs/alcohol users, take B12. I'm going back and adding this into every harm reduction guide I write because it's that important.

Magnesium

This is another one that's fairly cheap if you get the right one. Magnesium Oxide is dirt cheap and can be found at most dollar stores. If not, it's usually around $4 at grocery store pharmacies. Here's an NIH link on magnesium. To summarize the important parts of the link, magnesium deficiency is particularly common amongst

  • People with GI issues like Chron's or Celiacs (high comorbidity with neurodivergence)
  • People with diabetes
  • People who are chronic drinkers/drug users
  • Old people

The effects of magnesium deficiency are much less major than B12 deficiency, but still affect neurodivergent folk quite a bit. Chronic magnesium deficiency can cause major issues, but for the most part magnesium deficiency just makes you feel a baseline of sick with symptoms such as nausea/vomiting, and muscle weakness/fatigue. Full list of possible symptoms are as followed, with some marked as only being chronic issues

  • Nausea and vomiting
  • Low apetite
  • Muscle tension and weakness
  • Hypertension (high blood pressure, chronic issue)
  • People with chronically low magnesium have a higher rate of developing type 2 diabetes
  • People with migraine issues will have their issues made worse by magnesium deficiency

This isn't going to help mental issues directly, but it will help deal with physical symptoms that contribute to issues such as anxiety or irritability. The best thing I've learned going to AA meetings is ASPHALT (Anxious, stimulated, pain, hungry, angry, lonely, tired), an abbreviation that helps to check in on your physical and mental needs before you make any decisions. Magnesium helps quite a bit with the physical side of that list, it's also a CNS depressant so it can also help with anxiety, albeit not a silver bullet. Overall, if you're dealing with a lot of physical symptoms of anxiety such as a weak stomach or being shaky all the time, you should try magnesium.

One thing I will add to this is that other forms of magnesium are worth looking into. Personally, I prefer magnesium citrate, it seems to do better as a muscle relaxer. My B12 friend from the previous section loves magnesium taurate and vouches for that. Oxide is the cheapest pills you can get, but if you're really strapped for cash, I still haven't found a reason that unflavored/unscented epsom salt (straight magnesium) can't just be eaten. Edit: @ReadFanon@hexbear.net also wanted to mention that if you buy from local shops, you can buy the food grade stuff for real cheap, and that's safer than buying stuff for baths.

Vitamin D

The sun vitamin! Honestly we're on Hexbear, I could put this at the top of the list because of how little some of us go outside lol. Personally, I actually get very little from Vitamin D, but I know people that it did work quite well for. I'm probably able to absorb enough Vitamin D through the sun, but as I'll go into in the edit section, I'm not the rule. Vitamin D deficiency is known to cause

  • Depression
  • Fatigue
  • Bone pain
  • Muscle weakness/cramps

Most people I see taking Vitamin D are doing so as a supplement for depression, and I've seen it work for a few. Now personally? I still needed to get on an SSRI for my own mental health, it wasn't a silver bullet for depression. However, I did find that it helped quite a bit with fatigue and bone pain. Temporarily taking Vitamin D until I had the energy to go touch grass and get sunlight was helpful. This is one that I consider less important, but it certainly didn't hurt anything when I picked it up. The only reason I'm ranking it higher than some of the other solutions I'm about to list is because it's cheaper, and I've seen more testimony supporting it than other solutions

EDIT: @ReadFanon@hexbear.net has posted new information that makes part of what I said about Vitamin D inaccurate. Originally, I said if you get enough sun light during the day, you're probably fine, but ReadFanon provided an article that puts that into question. Like I said, I try to keep my posts as focused on my personal experience as possible, but I'm totally open to evidence that I'm wrong and will update my post accordingly. If you suffer from any of these symptoms, Vitamin D is cheap and worth giving a shot

Their specific comment because it's worth adding

I'm going to be a dissenting opinion on this based on this study and because it's my pet theory that the RDI for Vitamin D is lower than it should be.

If you're on a restricted diet/veg and you don't get a daily intake of Vitamin D rich/fortified foods then I'd strongly encourage you to consider supplementing this. Also kids - if you have kids then please supplement their Vitamin D intake because essentially it's understood that a lack of Vitamin D especially during childhood development is a major factor for developing multiple sclerosis later in life. A few dollars of prevention can save a ton of complications down the track.

L-theanine

This is the first weird one on this list, but I'm sure that the L-theanine users on this board can chime in and support it. L-theanine is the closest thing you can get to an anti-anxiety over the counter. This is the most expensive supplement on this list so far, but it's one that I can wholeheartedly recommend. It doesn't get you high, it just makes you less anxious and more relaxed. It's one of amino acids found in teas that make tea such a calming thing. If you're already a daily tea drinker, getting L-theanine might be redundant, but I personally prefer getting my L-theanine without caffeine. It's also helpful for sleep.

Edit: @Assian_Candor@hexbear.net gave some good advice on L-theanine, specifically on mixing it with caffeine. Comrade specifically suggests

Humble caffeine is missing from your list and is probably the most powerful OTC nootropic out there and has been a godsend for dealing with undiagnosed ADHD (one of these days I will work up the will to fill out the paperwork for testing .. I swear). Particularly when stacked with l-theanine at 1:2, which gives all the focus with none of the jitters. I would recommend taking l theanine standalone any time caffeine is ingested. If you have morning coffee and road rage on the way to work this advice is tailor made for you. 100/200 Combo pills are available out there for around 30c per dose

NAC

NAC is my most loaded suggestion here. For example, if you're a heavy drinker, don't even bother with it, it can make alcohol worse on your liver. But as someone who self medicated my neurodivergent traits with alcohol, downers, and cigs for a long time, NAC is insanely helpful for being off them. First off since I mentioned it, it helps quite a bit with the voice of addiction for cigs, alcohol and gabapentinoids. I don't find it helpful for other vices, but it's life saving for those addictions. It also helps quite a bit with my nail biting. NAC is chemically the closest thing to an actual downer on this list. It works to regulate glutemate (one of the downer parts of your brain) production by helping create other amino acids in your body that regulate it. This is especially good if you're recovering from long term downer use, such as getting off benzodiazapines or gabapentinoids. However, there is evidence that it's also helpful to people with schizophrenia and OCD separate from any previous drug use. If you self medicate with downers, I would definitely recommend doing more research into NAC, or you can leave a comment here with a question about it and I'll research it for you.

Conclusion

As always with my posts like these, if you have any questions, leave them in the comments. If I know the answer, I'll respond as soon as I see it, if I don't know the answer I'll research it and give you some sources to go along with it. I generally try to stick with my lived experience for answers though. There are a lot of supplements that are BS, and there are probably more that help that I didn't put in this list, so if you have anything you'd add, comment it and I'll edit the post to add it in <3

This can absolutely be done!

I'd strongly encourage people to veer towards Epsom salts that you buy from a homebrew shop or for tofu making as these will definitely be unscented but more importantly they will be food grade by necessity. I can get 9oz of food grade magnesium for $4 here and everything is expensive where I live. Sure I can get lower grade magnesium for $1.50/9oz but 250g (9oz) goes a long way when you're probably taking less than 0.5g a day; a 250g supply will last you in the vicinity of two years. Best to spend an extra couple of dollars here if you can spare it.

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[-] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 16 points 2 months ago

Reminder for all the im-vegan homies to take your B12 supplements, since it's rare in the foods we eat.

Vitamin D

So you're telling me to touch-grass? During the day?

kiryu-slam

[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

Yeah, that's something I'll add to the post if you don't mind, I didn't realize vegan diets were typically low in B12 but I'm not surprised since most people's diets are low in B12.

And yeah, I know it's been said by a bunch of neurotypical people ad nauseum, but it's true. I wouldn't say my anti-depressant was totally working until I started regularly going on walks during the day. To be fair, I started going on walks as a necessity, no longer having a car. I had to be forced to go touch grass. But it's made a massive difference in how I feel mentally and physically.

[-] LaGG_3@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

And yeah, I know it's been said by a bunch of neurotypical people ad nauseum, but it's true. I wouldn't say my anti-depressant was totally working until I started regularly going on walks during the day. To be fair, I started going on walks as a necessity, no longer having a car. I had to be forced to go touch grass. But it's made a massive difference in how I feel mentally and physically.

I was trying to make a dumb joke with the emoji, since it looks like Kiryu is getting mad and going outside lol. I'm lucky to have canine pals that I have to take outside every day (especially when I don't want to). Nothing like accountability for others to force good habits on ourselves!

[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

Ah I haven't played enough Yakuza to fully get the context of that, I figured it was a joking thing but I figured I'd leave the comment there for people reading it because I wasn't totally sure.

Yeah, neurodivergent people can form good habits for others like their lives depend on it. Before I broke up with my ex, we got a kitten together and that was better for my mental health than pretty much everything on this list. Making better habits for ourselves does miles. A song that hits the point better than I ever could

[-] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 1 points 2 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[-] varmint@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

I think a lot of the tofu and non-dairy milk I buy in Canada is enriched with B12, but I'm still always double thinking it. I'm on a B12 supplement schedule of "whenever I remember it," so a few times a month.

[-] featured@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 months ago

Shoutout nutritional yeast and soy milk with b12

[-] take_five_seconds@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago

vitamin d

it's crazy how quickly my basic moods changed for the better when i started taking 2000iu of this a day (doctor recommended)

[-] companero@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago

It helped me too.

Just be careful you don't take too much, as it can cause hypercalcemia. It's good to get your levels checked with bloodwork if possible.

[-] take_five_seconds@hexbear.net 8 points 2 months ago

It's good to get your levels checked with bloodwork if possible.

Yes indeed! I'm lucky enough to be on poor people insurance so I get bi-yearly bloodwork. There was an anglo in the ukkk recently who died from vitamin d toxicity so it's definitely something to be careful of.

[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

Yeah, I feel like an asshole telling people to go outside and get some sunlight because it seems so easy to do, but Vitamin D really makes such a big difference. I didn't get a massive difference from taking the supplements, but it was enough to keep me from going outside even on days I wasn't forced to walk somewhere. Some people are able to fully recover from depression only taking Vitamin D because it is that big of a deal. Obviously that won't be everybody, but it's crazy how much we sleep on the basics

[-] take_five_seconds@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

Some people are able to fully recover from depression only taking Vitamin D because it is that big of a deal.

i wouldn't say that, but it was like night/day after i started taking it. like "oh, maybe i should've been doing this for awhile" seriously helped with self regulating my moods and shit, pretty wild.

[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

I've seen it happen in a couple people in my life, it wasn't me but I've seen it to someone fairly close to me. I got less great impacts from it, but he literally just needed to get on B12 to be fine

[-] ReadFanon@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Excellent post!

Just wanted to add that serious B12 deficiency has been proven to cause psychosis in some people.

B12 isn't a magic bullet that makes every instance of psychosis immediately vanish but also: take the recommendations about B12 seriously, especially if you are on a restricted diet (ARFID etc.), you are veg, or you experience psychosis/have a family history of psychosis.

Also if you use nitrous oxide then please, please supplement your B12 intake and keep an eye on your B12 levels or otherwise you risk developing what is essentially drug-induced multiple sclerosis.

if you're really strapped for cash, I still haven't found a reason that unflavored/unscented epsom salt (straight magnesium) can't just be eaten.

This can absolutely be done!

I'd strongly encourage people to veer towards Epsom salts that you buy from a homebrew shop or for tofu making as these will definitely be unscented but more importantly they will be food grade by necessity. I can get 9oz of food grade magnesium for $4 here and everything is expensive where I live. Sure I can get lower grade magnesium for $1.50/9oz but 250g (9oz) goes a long way when you're probably taking less than 0.5g a day; a 250g supply will last you in the vicinity of two years. Best to spend an extra couple of dollars here if you can spare it.

Vitamin D

The sun vitamin! Honestly we're on Hexbear, I could put this at the top of the list because of how little some of us go outside lol. But if you get regular sun-skin contact, you're probably fine on this.

I'm going to be a dissenting opinion on this based on this study and because it's my pet theory that the RDI for Vitamin D is lower than it should be.

If you're on a restricted diet/veg and you don't get a daily intake of Vitamin D rich/fortified foods then I'd strongly encourage you to consider supplementing this. Also kids - if you have kids then please supplement their Vitamin D intake because essentially it's understood that a lack of Vitamin D especially during childhood development is a major factor for developing multiple sclerosis later in life. A few dollars of prevention can save a ton of complications down the track.

[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

Ay always glad seeing you on my posts! Thank you for talking me through my psychosis post a few months ago, I really appreciate it. I'll update the vitamin D section of this guide to reflect your posting because my statements on Vitamin D are mostly anecdotal

[-] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I am interested to find that b12 is missing from my multi and it only provides 24% DV Magnesium. I have been feeling very run down lately despite getting enough sleep so I will definitely be giving these a try.

Humble caffeine is missing from your list and is probably the most powerful OTC nootropic out there and has been a godsend for dealing with undiagnosed ADHD (one of these days I will work up the will to fill out the paperwork for testing .. I swear). Particularly when stacked with l-theanine at 1:2, which gives all the focus with none of the jitters.

I would recommend taking l theanine standalone any time caffeine is ingested. If you have morning coffee and road rage on the way to work this advice is tailor made for you.

100/200 Combo pills are available out there for around 30c per dose

[-] Edie@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

one of these days I will work up the will to fill out the paperwork for testing .. I swear

michael-laugh

To quote ReadFanon:

"I'm pretty sure I have the chronic procrastination disorder but I don't know why I've spent so much time procrastinating about seeking a diagnosis for it."

[-] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

Seriously though I call my therapists office and am like hey my practitioner and I are pretty sure I have ADHD I need a test and they're like ok here fill out these 10 pages of paperwork

Bruh

[-] Edie@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago
[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

Yeah, caffeine is one I forget about quite often. I guess it goes into me being the head mod of /c/drugs, but I see caffeine as more of a drug than a supplement so I left it out. However, I can vouch for caffeine being good, as I drink a shit ton of coffee everyday now. L-theanine also smooths out caffeine quite a bit. Do you mind if I add this to the L-theanine section of the post (with credit ofc)?

[-] Assian_Candor@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

Yes of course

[-] Bnova@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

I've been taking CoQ10 and have noticed more stamina during exercise, I wouldn't really say I have more energy, I'm just less tired post workout. My grandfather died of heart failure and my mother has afib so I figured I'd give it a shot to see if I can avoid long term heart problems.

[-] MusicOwl@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago
[-] btfod@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

My psych provider recommended magnesium glycinate 400-500mg at bedtime for my sleep maintenance insomnia, and I truly believe it's helped me. Just wanted to chime in with more good magnesium vibes. Great post.

[-] aaro@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

I have strong feelings, some anecdotal backup, and a limited but non-zero amount of empirical knowledge that Lion's Mane is a really good herbal supplement for neurodiverse folks, especially those with ADHD, and would love to hear other experiences with it, anybody else familiar?

[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

I'd also like to hear more on Lion's Mane. I've met a fair amount of people that swear by it, someone even has Lion's Mane coffee they keep in the kitchen at work and they're pretty cool. I'll try it out eventually and do a write up on it (maybe even do a 2.0 post on here at some point with other supplements), but I generally try to avoid suggesting things that I haven't personally ingested. What kind of anecdotes have you heard, I'm always curious about that?

[-] Mickmacduffin@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

Can you take a multivitamin that includes any/all of these, or is it better to take them separately?

[-] LeylaLove@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago

Most multi-vitamins I've come across don't have enough magnesium and B12, and definitely don't have NAC or L-theanine if you're looking for either of those. I would suggest getting the supplements separately so that you can control when you take them. B12 is better in the morning and magnesium is better at night, although you can't really go wrong with when you dose magnesium. But if you find a multi-vitamin with full doses of both and it's cheap, there's no reason to not take the multivitamin

[-] Mickmacduffin@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

Good to know. Thanks!

[-] makotech222@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

my costco multivitamin have 25% dv of magnesium and 250% of B12

[-] Mickmacduffin@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

Oh good. Thats what I've been taking

[-] Alaskaball@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago
this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2024
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What is Neurodivergence?

It's ADHD, Autism, OCD, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bi-polar, aspd, etc etc etc etc

“neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behavior”

So, it’s very broad, if you feel like it describes you then it does as far as we're concerned


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