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Russia Mulls Forking Linux in Response to Developer Exclusions (cyberinsider.com)
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[-] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 22 points 2 days ago

Probably better for BRICS countries to consider contributing to something different.

Realistically there's no feasible way for the US to block access to use the kernel, and even a soft fork of it will be laughably easy for glowies to exploit. There are a bunch of promising kernels that could be well suited for China and Russia's push towards RISC and ARM independence, whereas in Linux they'd be tasked with maintaining drivers and other systems that are a massive security vulnerability if you don't have total control over them.

I'd honestly even consider it a good idea for Russia to get the FSF to fight this considering it's a blatant violation of the GPL. Even if the president can just say whatever they like, at least you can make it embarrassing and expensive for the chauvinists gloating at the labour they exploited for years.

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 13 points 2 days ago

I'd honestly even consider it a good idea for Russia to get the FSF to fight this considering it's a blatant violation of the GPL.

How is telling someone that you won’t accept their contributions anymore a violation of the GPL?

[-] ganymede@lemmy.ml 39 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

personally i don't agree with sanctioning foss communities.

but fuckit, bring on more forks i say.

among other benefits, the scifi-type scenario of nations trying to patch eachothers backdoors and slip in new backdoors (and hopefully innovations). could make for an exciting OS space-race type scenario

[-] wewbull@feddit.uk 0 points 2 days ago

personally i don't agree with sanctioning foss communities.

Foss communities aren't being sanctioned. Whole countries are. It's the same limitation whatever enterprise you're in.

If Olympians have to renounce their country to take part in global competition, why do you not think a software developer wouldn't have to do the same to be involved in a global project?

[-] mathemachristian@hexbear.net 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Do you think it's acceptable to make olympicians first bow to the west before they can take part in games?

Should Isn'traelis first denounce the genocide before being able to contribute to the linux kernel or take part in olympic games?

[-] wewbull@feddit.uk 3 points 2 days ago

Not the west. The global community.

...and should Israel be under sanctions? Absolutely.

[-] scorp@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago

"global community"

1000051637

[-] legionguy@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 day ago

add india lil bro

[-] ReakDuck@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago

Thats the entire world!

[-] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Lol global community

It will do what the US says or else it gets the hose again

[-] ganymede@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

this is a complex topic and probably belongs in a different thread.

essentially i don't personally believe in punishing citizens of a country for the actions of its politicians.

at best its misguided, at worse it basically empowers politicians on both sides who draw power from friction between citizens of different nations. typical divide and conquer bs.

why do you not think a software developer wouldn’t have to

wouldn't or shouldn't? if you mean wouldn't, it's not surprising and its not the dev's fault they have to comply with policy, so the criticism is not with them.

if you mean shouldn't, i don't agree with punishing athletes either, but regarding foss specifically, isn't the "friendly competition" of olympics equivalent to that? sort of. in some ways yes. in other ways its actually the opposite.

collaboration is actually the opposite of competition.

and while there's a case for the benefits of healthy sports competition, i don't believe it truly fulfills the spirit of international goodwill to the degree it says on the packaging. foss and other forms of international collaboration for the betterment of greater society are definitely on a higher rung - in my opinion at least.

[-] 0x0@programming.dev 14 points 3 days ago

It'll be called BRICS Linux.

[-] evanstucker@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 days ago

Please don't...

Can we organize and force the Linux Foundation and/or OFAC to exclude open source software from these sanctions? Is anyone doing that yet?

[-] korbel@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 days ago

What would be the point of the sanctions then? If the Linux Foundation were against it they could move the infrastructure to an other jurisdiction which does not sanctize countries, that would carry a strong message. But if they refuse to do that, what's wrong with others' forking it and doing it? That's the point of opensource.

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[-] JustMarkov@lemmy.ml 19 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It was expected. This is how "free" development becomes a victim of not at all free dogmas. It is also how already fragmented Linux development becomes even more fragmented.

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 5 points 3 days ago

What “not at all free dogmas” are you referencing, and why is “free” in scare quotes?

[-] JustMarkov@lemmy.ml 25 points 3 days ago

What's free about delisting maintainers based on their country of residence?

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network -5 points 2 days ago

First, you’re acting like the decision was made by Linus or another member of the team and that they weren’t following the law.

Second, even if that weren’t the case, it’s still completely free. Unless you can name one of the following freedoms that was impacted by those actions:

  • Freedom 0: The freedom to use the program for any purpose.
  • Freedom 1: The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish.
  • Freedom 2: The freedom to redistribute and make copies so you can help your neighbor.
  • Freedom 3: The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements (and modified versions in general) to the public, so that the whole community benefits.
[-] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 days ago

All of those freedoms were directly impacted bozo.

And as for "Linus didn't do it", not only did they choose to comply with an order that directly violated the GPL, but in doing so he then followed up by gloating about Russian maintainers who have worked diligently on the kernel for years for the betterment of open software AND Linus' paycheck.

Calling your former volunteer contributors bots and state assets because of their home country is just straight up racist, especially when the only evidence of state-sponsored tampering in the Kernel has come from American institutions (that we even know of).

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 1 points 2 days ago

Literally none of those freedoms were impacted. Everyone is still free to use the program as they wish, fork it, make changes, etc.. Linux doesn’t have a new license that says “anyone but Russians” can use it.

he then followed up by gloating about Russian maintainers

How did he gloat? He explained the change. If your complaint is that he was abrasive, I feel like you’re not familiar with Linus.

Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.

It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting
reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to
"grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change
anything.

And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm
accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US
thing.

If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read
the news some day.  And by "news", I don't mean Russian
state-sponsored spam.

As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call
brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian
aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of
history knowledge too.

Sounds a lot more like he’s frustrated than delighted to me.

Calling your former volunteer contributors bots

He didn’t call the contributors bots.

He called the people submitting reverts and complaining about those maintainers, who weren’t contributors themselves, “troll farm accounts.”

and state assets because of their home country

When did he call anyone a state asset? To be clear, being a troll or a paid actor doesn’t make you someone’s property.

He also explained that this was a legal matter:

> Again -- are you under any sort of NDA not to even refer to a list of
> these countries?

No, but I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to go into the details that
I - and other maintainers - were told by lawyers.

I'm also not going to start discussing legal issues with random
internet people who I seriously suspect are paid actors and/or have
been riled up by them.
[-] ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net 0 points 18 hours ago

To be clear, being a troll or a paid actor doesn’t make you someone’s property.

Ok, I give up, I have no idea if you're doing a bit. Like I felt kinda confident you were serious, but this leaves me floundering. Purposely obtuse because you've talked yourself into such a stupid corner, or just that incredibly obtuse that you unironically think asset means property? Absolutely no way to tell which one it is.

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 1 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Before I reply to your comment, I’d like to share this link. It didn’t change any of my existing understanding because Linus’s comment already made it clear that this was out of their hands, but maybe it’ll help clarify something for you.

I realize now that this comment on that post was made before this one (“What's free about delisting maintainers based on their country of residence?”) by the same person. It’s disingenuous for someone to act like this is about “country of residence” when they already engaged with a post clarifying that it’s because of sanctions against specific companies.

that you unironically think asset means property

I unironically think that because it does mean that:

  1. assets plural

a. the property of a deceased person subject by law to the payment of his or her debts and legacies

b. the entire property of a person, association, corporation, or estate applicable or subject to the payment of debts

  1. ADVANTAGE, RESOURCE

a. an item of value owned

b. assets plural the items on a balance sheet showing the book value of property owned

When I do a search for “state asset,” the results I get are all related to property, resources, etc., things that belong to and can be exploited by the state - for example https://www.epa.gov/dwcapacity/state-asset-management-initiatives-documents

Searching for “asset” specifically I see a tertiary definition reading “A spy working in his or her own country and controlled by the enemy” as well as the wikipedia definition, but that still means “spy,” not “paid lobbyist.”

just that incredibly obtuse

I’d apologize for not being well versed enough in counter-intelligence lingo to properly interpret the comment, but even with a proper interpretation, the comment I replied to was still incoherent, so I’m not really sure what you expect here.

It feels weird to say that it was incredibly obtuse of me to not spend more time trying to figure out what someone meant when they were, as far as I can tell just mad that Linus and other Linux maintainers didn’t ignore what their attorneys advised, regardless of what impact that might have had on them personally, and spouting a bunch of nonsense as a result.

Maybe I’m wrong, though. If so, would you care to explain how this was a violation of the GPL and/or how all of the 4 freedoms I listed were violated?

[-] ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net 0 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)
  1. assets plural

a. the property of a deceased person subject by law to the payment of his or her debts and legacies

b. the entire property of a person, association, corporation, or estate applicable or subject to the payment of debts

  1. ADVANTAGE, RESOURCE

a. an item of value owned

b. assets plural the items on a balance sheet showing the book value of property owned

Hey now, something strange is going on here - see, when I visit that page, there aren't just 3 items. Now, you wouldn't be selectively ignoring parts of your own source to paint a certain narrative, would you? Because the 4th item I see is

4 : something useful in an effort to foil or defeat an enemy: such as
a : a piece of military equipment

b : spy

I'm sure you simply... overlooked it in your excitement. Now you're aware though, I'm sure you'll be happy to correct your comments.

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 1 points 14 hours ago

You could try reading the rest of my comment first.

[-] ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net 0 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

why would i fucking care about the rest of what you have to say, liar? You're not here arguing in good faith, why would I bother?

[-] hedgehog@ttrpg.network 1 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)
  1. I was showing that my understanding of the word “asset” was based in fact. The 4th definition wasn’t relevant to that.
  2. I literally talked about the 4th definition in the next paragraph.

If anyone’s operating in bad faith, it’s you. Are you drunk? You’re being an intentionally obtuse pedant and a liar (by your own definition). Try replying once you’ve sobered up, clown. Once you reread and realize how much of a dick you were, I’m sure you’ll apologize - unless I’m right about you being too much of a coward to admit when you’re wrong about something.

[-] sneak100@hexbear.net 4 points 2 days ago

That's a lot of cope babe, are you ok? & thanks for posting Linus' ravings to prove the other guy right

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[-] Cysioland@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Check out the post history, this person is a Richard Stallman defender

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this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
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Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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