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Just now, an online liberal told me that I'm "wasting my vote" for voting third party instead of KAMALA (hexbear.net)

submitted 14 hours ago by Angel@hexbear.net to c/chapotraphouse@hexbear.net

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It's like these libs believe that Kamala is entitled to our vote.

If I didn't vote for PSL , then I simply would not vote! It's not "PSL or Kamala;" it's "PSL or sit on my ass at home."

I know libs don't understand nuance, but it still is so frustrating that they put this framing on me where they assume that I have any actual interest in a Kamala president over a Trump presidency.

Not only that, but this person called Claudia de la Cruz a "clowny leftist with no choice of winning" (which isn't the point of a third party vote; let's be real), but I just told the lib, "You call her clowny, but you are literally guilt tripping and insulting me just because I won't vote for someone who is actively greenlighting a genocide on Palestinians." and then I blocked.

Whether Trump or Kamala wins, I'll enjoy social media outrage from either side, but it seems like what I'll see from liberals in the case of a Trump election will be more entertaining. I truly think libs are beyond being redeemed, and that even goes for the more "progressive" types who appropriate the label of "democratic socialist" like Bernie and AOC. I don't adhere to lesser-evilism, so I'm not gonna pretend that this one-party state with two parties has one side over the other functioning in a way that could especially benefit me.

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[-] Dirt_Owl@hexbear.net 73 points 14 hours ago

Liberals: We have to save democracy!

Also liberals: But also you don't get to choose who to vote for

[-] ThermonuclearEgg@hexbear.net 53 points 13 hours ago

Also liberals: We're better than China because we have two parties you don't get to choose between instead of one

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[-] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 47 points 13 hours ago

It's not "PSL or Kamala;" it's "PSL or sit on my ass at home."

A thing I thought recently is that the types who will outright harass you for not voting for Harris have the same logic as anti-adblock: give me stern warnings about how I'm violating site TOS, and force me to sit through the ads, but I'm still not going to click on the ads — that is after all why I was using an adblocker! So they've really just wasted their own bandwidth and my own time.

Alternatively, it's the same logic as anti-piracy, where every pirated copy of something is seen as lost money, as if every single person who pirated something Would've bought the thing using "legal means" If Only all the pirate sites were taken down... And so they force me to go from one site to the next, as if with just enough pressure I actually would shell out wads of cash for My Shows instead of just finding other things to waste my time on.

[-] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 38 points 13 hours ago

the "you are wasting your vote when you vote for someone who won't win" is one of those weird frames that Democrats have been deploying since I was young.

it's so deeply stupid it's hard to know where to begin. it made me want to say that I would only vote for whoever looked like was most certain of victory so that I could support the winner and therefore win at this game of voting and brag about being in the winning team.

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[-] Cowbee@hexbear.net 47 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

It's especially funny when they skin leftists and wear their faces, talk a big game, but never go through with any organizational efforts and just vote dem. Or, it would be funny, if it wasn't tragic. Scratch a lib, and a fascist bleeds and all that.

That said, most liberals aren't "beyond redemption," or at least can still be educated and radicalized IMO, we just need to adapt our tactics to newfound results. I imagine I'm not the only former liberal on this site. Debatebroing like I used to do wasn't generally useful. As Imperialism dies, material conditions shift, and more people can be turned towards Leftism, it's important to steer this natural process of radicalization than it is to debatelord IMO.

[-] frauddogg@hexbear.net 16 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

That said, liberals aren't "beyond redemption,"

Except for the fact that they're knowingly backing literal genocide. These aren't 2012 semi-malleable liberals, these are collaborators, compradorés, and kapos.

Death to the settlers; death to their empire.

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[-] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 13 points 11 hours ago

That said, liberals aren't "beyond redemption," IMO,

i cant agree with this. anybody who witnessed the government murder over a million people with COVID and then a few short years later double down on supporting the genocide of palestinians is indeed irredeemable. the only libs who aren't are those who aren't really interested in politics enough to be paying attention.

Death to America

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[-] Angel@hexbear.net 31 points 14 hours ago

To be fair, you have a point there. Even I was a lib at one point, but that was way early on when I first started caring about politics, and I wasn't even an adult back then.

It's possible to change minds, but so many of them give off the vibe that they are too stubborn to ever examine the dialectic properly. Situations like these piss me off enough to the point of forgetting that minds can be changed.

[-] Cowbee@hexbear.net 22 points 13 hours ago

To be fair, you have a point there. Even I was a lib at one point, but that was way early on when I first started caring about politics, and I wasn't even an adult back then.

Fair point! Grew out of liberalism in high-school as well.

It's possible to change minds, but so many of them give off the vibe that they are too stubborn to ever examine the dialectic properly. Situations like these piss me off enough to the point of forgetting that minds can be changed.

100%, if you ever saw my Lemmy.ml account all I did with it was debatelord against libs, usually .worlders. I understand exactly what you're talking about here, my point is more that this stubborness isn't an immutable characteristic but one that changes with the Material Conditions. As they decay, the ideas they find acceptable change, and then become more susceptible. Most stubborn turbolibs are privledged, so it takes longer for them to feel the pain others do.

[-] SevenSkalls@hexbear.net 8 points 9 hours ago

Tbh I miss your ml account debates. It helped assure me that I wasn't the crazy one to see at least one other person agreed with me and give good arguments. But I understand stopping for your own mental health.

[-] Cowbee@hexbear.net 7 points 9 hours ago

I may take it back up again eventually, but right now .world is cracking down hard, they perma'd my account on Political Memes for "misinformation."

I don't intend on dropping combatting liberalism, but instead shifting it to a more effective path. .worlders are largely inconvertible right now, so the best way isn't to fight directly on their turf. Still trying to figure out what a better way to do so is, though I intend on joining FRSO once my life stabilizes more, and doing actual organizing.

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[-] jolliver_bromwell@hexbear.net 2 points 10 hours ago

im really enjoying telling libs that i voted for jill stein. it's the only way i've been able to get them to call me comrade

[-] ProletarianDictator@hexbear.net 1 points 9 hours ago

Dems chose centrist Republicans with their policy agenda. Go focus your attention on them if you can't muster up meaningful policy to appeal to leftists.

YOU MADE THE TRADE, DONT BE MAD YOU CANT HAVE BOTH!

I'd be #khive right now if Biden stopped providing Israel with weapons. Instead, you are losing my vote forever by excusing genocide. Good job 👍 Hope rehabilitating Dick Chaney was worth it!