Guy on an electric bike asked if I would stop funding the genocide in Gaza so he would vote for me and I told him I'm not really "into stopping funding genocides right now" and he said "that's cool" and let me rant about means-tested healthcare but when it was over he said "that's what you're missing" and scooted off into the distance
I truly think libs are beyond being redeemed, and that even goes for the more "progressive" types who appropriate the label of "democratic socialist" like Bernie and AOC.
I used to think they could be moved left -- after all, many did -- but at this point I no longer believe that. So many of the libs who "moved left" under Trump, at least that I know, are now ride or die for Kdolf Hitler. If they won't grow a soul and reject liberalism because of genocide, they're beyond rehabilitating and aren't worth my time anymore. I'd rather engage with the politically unengaged than with the politically engaged liberal. The unengaged can be woken up to the truth, the engaged liberals see the truth and don't care.
Not sure where you live, but if you don't live in a swing state, you're wasting your vote if you DON'T vote third party.
Matching public campaign funds are calculated nationally. If you're in a solid red/blue state then you're 100% wasting your vote on a major party, because they opt out of public funds, an your vote isn't going to change a built-in 10% difference in the tally. But if you vote 3rd party, you're voting into a national pool that could potentially get that 3rd party automatic ballot access and matching federal funds for campaigning.
So if you're like the majority of us, in a state that doesn't matter, then you can just levy the accusation right back at them and ask why they're wasting their vote.
No matter where you live you're wasting your vote if you don't vote third party
Interestingly enough, this lib is from NY.
Not sure where you live, but if you don’t live in a swing state, you’re wasting your vote if you DON’T vote third party.
This is exactly what I don't understand about this claim lol. Why the fuck does it matter if someone from Minnesota or New York for example votes for a third party. The republicans haven't won MN or NY in decades.
Now I want to know what the Mayan glyph for KAMALA is.
"The only wasted vote is a vote for something you don't believe in."
I heard this from a libertarian but it's still good to throw out.
:posting: :posting: :posting:
Banging the sign again...
:posting: :posting: :posting:
Liberals are outnumbered 2-to-1 by non-voters. 50% of the electorate does not vote, so if they aren't doorknocking they are not serious.
that workers’ candidates are nominated everywhere in opposition to bourgeois-democratic candidates. As far as possible they should be League members and their election should be pursued by all possible means. Even where there is no prospect of achieving their election the workers must put up their own candidates to preserve their independence, to gauge their own strength and to bring their revolutionary position and party standpoint to public attention. They must not be led astray by the empty phrases of the democrats, who will maintain that the workers’ candidates will split the democratic party and offer the forces of reaction the chance of victory. All such talk means, in the final analysis, that the proletariat is to be swindled.
previously... previously... previously... previously... previously... previously... previously... previously... previously...
Oh my God do I try!
I try all the time...
To get through to Liberals!!
BUT HE CAN'T!
Dems chose centrist Republicans with their policy agenda. Go focus your attention on them if you can't muster up meaningful policy to appeal to leftists.
YOU MADE THE TRADE, DONT BE MAD YOU CANT HAVE BOTH!
I'd be #khive right now if Biden stopped providing Israel with weapons. Instead, you are losing my vote forever by excusing genocide. Good job 👍 Hope rehabilitating Dick Chaney was worth it!
WOOOOO VOTE PSL. DOES EVERYONE HAVE A PLAN TO VOTE??
Already voted for them!
[the song "Gloria" but the lyrics are reworked and the chorus is "CLAUDIA! CLAUDIA!"]
im really enjoying telling libs that i voted for jill stein. it's the only way i've been able to get them to call me comrade
I stick by my guns. All she literally had to do was say she was going to stop sending bombs to Israel for their genocide and to acknowledge that trans rights need to be protected and that she would at the very least work towards passing legislation for those things. That's all she needed to do and she'd have gotten my worthless red state vote.
ETA: Fuck Kamala Harris. ACAB.
...and not even follow through with any of it lol. She'd win while still supporting Isreal. Really easy to do but she can't just put the mask back on for five minutes and wait for the election to be over. Harris has to just rub everyone's noses in it.
Exactly, not even follow through at all. I'll take empty face-saving promises from a piece of shit candidate over laughing at dead Palestinians with her shit-eating "I'm speaking" catch phrase like some Simpsons caricature of herself. Our system is fucking broken so it really doesn't matter.
That was my math. At least fucking lie to me about being harm reduction. Just fucking lie. I know she wouldn't follow through but I would have to vote for moral reasons
imagine being such an entitled little baby that you think you deserve the opportunity to vote against genocide 😂😂
Death to America
I don't even get a vote and I've had to listen to american liberals talk about how I am trying to destroy the country for months, tell these dweebs you're voting PSL for me lol
I don’t even get a vote and I’ve had to listen to american liberals talk about how I am trying to destroy the country for months
:sad sicko emoji:
We're all trying in our own ways 😤
It's not "PSL or Kamala;" it's "PSL or sit on my ass at home."
A thing I thought recently is that the types who will outright harass you for not voting for Harris have the same logic as anti-adblock: give me stern warnings about how I'm violating site TOS, and force me to sit through the ads, but I'm still not going to click on the ads — that is after all why I was using an adblocker! So they've really just wasted their own bandwidth and my own time.
Alternatively, it's the same logic as anti-piracy, where every pirated copy of something is seen as lost money, as if every single person who pirated something Would've bought the thing using "legal means" If Only all the pirate sites were taken down... And so they force me to go from one site to the next, as if with just enough pressure I actually would shell out wads of cash for My Shows instead of just finding other things to waste my time on.
Liberals: We have to save democracy!
Also liberals: But also you don't get to choose who to vote for
You have to save democracy, which is why we’ve simplified the process for you by removing all of the incorrect candidates from the ballot.
Helldivers satire too subtle
God dude I had someone yesterday be like “listen if the vote is between a salad and a cyanide pill you can’t vote for pizza just because you want it. You have to vote for salad.” And I’m just… yall just out here saying vote for Kamala or kill yourself? And you’re complaining the other party is facist?
what, you don't remember during Trump's first term when he killed every single American? he'll do it again!
Also liberals: We're better than China because we have two parties you don't get to choose between instead of one
the "you are wasting your vote when you vote for someone who won't win" is one of those weird frames that Democrats have been deploying since I was young.
it's so deeply stupid it's hard to know where to begin. it made me want to say that I would only vote for whoever looked like was most certain of victory so that I could support the winner and therefore win at this game of voting and brag about being in the winning team.
The only votes that matter are in swing states, and even then, probably down to swing counties. The race at this point is decided by like what, 100,000 people maybe? People want to believe that "Every vote counts!" but, they don't, that's called a popular vote, and we don't do that here.
"Swing counties" don't matter, only state totals.
Dems & their media like to hype up the importance of those counties so they can focus on appealing to conservatives rather than running up the score in urban centers with a progressive agenda.
If Kamala wanted to win, she'd be running for president of Philadelphia, not running ads on how she wants to deport everyone like she's been doing.
it made me want to say that I would only vote for whoever looked like was most certain of victory so that I could support the winner and therefore win at this game of voting and brag about being in the winning team.
this framing is pretty much what libs have internalized. everybody knows, on some level, that there's no hope of turning off the child murdering machine, so there's nothing left to get excited about except whether the child murdering machine will be painted red or blue
Death to America
It's especially funny when they skin leftists and wear their faces, talk a big game, but never go through with any organizational efforts and just vote dem. Or, it would be funny, if it wasn't tragic. Scratch a lib, and a fascist bleeds and all that.
That said, most liberals aren't "beyond redemption," or at least can still be educated and radicalized IMO, we just need to adapt our tactics to newfound results. I imagine I'm not the only former liberal on this site. Debatebroing like I used to do wasn't generally useful. As Imperialism dies, material conditions shift, and more people can be turned towards Leftism, it's important to steer this natural process of radicalization than it is to debatelord IMO.
That said, liberals aren't "beyond redemption,"
Except for the fact that they're knowingly backing literal genocide. These aren't 2012 semi-malleable liberals, these are collaborators, compradorés, and kapos.
Death to the settlers; death to their empire.
I don't disagree, my point is more that most aren't proletarianized enough by Imperialist decay to give a fuck. The "true believers?" Fuck them entirely. The ignorant masses? Most can still be persuaded IMO, but have varying degrees of malleability.
The horrible fucking truth is that most of the Amerikkkan people don't give a shit beyond their white picket fences. They are liberals out of convenience, the ones privledged enough to sleepwalk through life, but fortunately for us they can be persuaded when eventually they must care. Are these the most moral people? Absolutely fucking not.
I dunno, maybe I have more internal liberalism I need to kill, but converting libs to comrades still seems possible to me, and necessary for revolution. They just need to kill their inner liberal as well.
That said, liberals aren't "beyond redemption," IMO,
i cant agree with this. anybody who witnessed the government murder over a million people with COVID and then a few short years later double down on supporting the genocide of palestinians is indeed irredeemable. the only libs who aren't are those who aren't really interested in politics enough to be paying attention.
Death to America
Depends. There are ideological full liberals, and there are liberal bystanders that believe their hands are tied. The majority aren't the former, the "true believers," the majority don't care enough because they aren't proletarianized enough.
yeah, there's a difference between west wing sorkinites and people who are borderline uninvolved in politics but vote blue because red is vocally unhinged in a way that blue (usually) avoids. like a lib who works at wal mart is much more reachable than a lib who works at raytheon and it's kind of ridiculous to pretend that's not the case
thank you
Yep, that's my point. Within the liberal current that votes Kamala there are the theoryless that vote her out of fear of Trump, and the souless that vote her joyfully. The former are still important to reach, the latter are a lost cause (basically all of Lemmy.world).
To be fair, you have a point there. Even I was a lib at one point, but that was way early on when I first started caring about politics, and I wasn't even an adult back then.
It's possible to change minds, but so many of them give off the vibe that they are too stubborn to ever examine the dialectic properly. Situations like these piss me off enough to the point of forgetting that minds can be changed.
To be fair, you have a point there. Even I was a lib at one point, but that was way early on when I first started caring about politics, and I wasn't even an adult back then.
Fair point! Grew out of liberalism in high-school as well.
It's possible to change minds, but so many of them give off the vibe that they are too stubborn to ever examine the dialectic properly. Situations like these piss me off enough to the point of forgetting that minds can be changed.
100%, if you ever saw my Lemmy.ml account all I did with it was debatelord against libs, usually .worlders. I understand exactly what you're talking about here, my point is more that this stubborness isn't an immutable characteristic but one that changes with the Material Conditions. As they decay, the ideas they find acceptable change, and then become more susceptible. Most stubborn turbolibs are privledged, so it takes longer for them to feel the pain others do.
Tbh I miss your ml account debates. It helped assure me that I wasn't the crazy one to see at least one other person agreed with me and give good arguments. But I understand stopping for your own mental health.
I may take it back up again eventually, but right now .world is cracking down hard, they perma'd my account on Political Memes for "misinformation."
I don't intend on dropping combatting liberalism, but instead shifting it to a more effective path. .worlders are largely inconvertible right now, so the best way isn't to fight directly on their turf. Still trying to figure out what a better way to do so is, though I intend on joining FRSO once my life stabilizes more, and doing actual organizing.
Dems chose centrist Republicans with their policy agenda. Go focus your attention on them if you can't muster up meaningful policy to appeal to leftists.
YOU MADE THE TRADE, DONT BE MAD YOU CANT HAVE BOTH!
I'd be #khive right now if Biden stopped providing Israel with weapons. Instead, you are losing my vote forever by excusing genocide. Good job 👍 Hope rehabilitating Dick Chaney was worth it!
im really enjoying telling libs that i voted for jill stein. it's the only way i've been able to get them to call me comrade
chapotraphouse
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank
Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here
Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank