To be fair, there hasn't really been a dismantling of oppressive social systems in a long while (major ones anyway), so that's not really that great of a strategy to rely on
Before the monarchies started falling they had been in control for a long while too...
Just takes one coordination signal loud enough and a population displeased enough...
And, ideally, a good idea for a replacement system, so we don't just end up with power held by the most ruthless...
You must believe before everything else that the revolution must come, that there is no other choice.
-Abdullah Ocalan
The belief that "history has ended" and that there will be no major revolutions in our lifetimes is one of the greatest weapons of capital and the ruling elites in general.
If we are to progress as a species, socialist revolution is a historic necessity, there is no other way.
Trying to make capitalism care for humans, animals, nature, our environments and climate; trying to mate it more "humane"/green/queer-friendly/feminist etc. etc. is simply impossible since all those things are in direct opposition to the interests of capital (e.g. profits forever growing).
Sure you might get a few concessions here and there, but those are usually funded by outsourcing the gravest forms of exploitation to the global south; in the rare case that capitalists do give in and decrease their profit margin, a timer starts ticking towards one of the following: either neoliberal austerity or fascism
I agree, but also, sometimes "dismantling oppressive social systems" means things like volunteering at a community food bank, or using one's privilege as a cis woman to obtain free, prescribed estrogen that you can give to a trans woman who is unable to get her HRT officially, or joining a tenants union and turning up to resist an unfair eviction because fighting back as a tenant is hard even when the law is on your side.
It sort of reminds me of trying to stop biting my nails; I made multiple attempts to do so over the years, and I only found success when I realised I needed to replace the habit I was trying to break with a new one, rather than just subtracting the nail biting habit.
For me, recognising that systemic problems lie at the heart of many of my ails led me to look outwards and find solidarity within my community, which has led to me being more securely supported by mutual aid networks and the like.
Obergfell was 9 years ago.
Unfortunately most of psychotherapy is individualistic and focused on getting people "functional" again so that they can generate a profit for capitalists...
It's kind of like saying that the individual who isn't responding well to the abysmal conditions created by capitalism is "broken" and not the system itself. So most of the time you are gonna get a "best I can do is give you some pills that dull all your emotions, good and bad".
tbh I'm much more concerned about "mentally healthy" non-socialists. Either they must have been be brainwashed into ignorance or something human is missing inside of them...
(though I admit that this assessment is based on superficial knowledge)
Capitalism causes depression - video by azure scapegoat
EDIT:
Usually I also recommend the following podcast during discussions like these, I have not listened to it myself but only heard good things about it (it's a leftist mental health podcast, focusing on systemic issues, especially capitalism, for a change):
"It's Not Just In Your Head"
Be careful, "people who disagree with me are non-humans" is a dangerous path to start down...
This is why I knew I found the right therapist when she asked what I've been stressed about and I said "the current state of politics" and she just said "oh yeah, fair" and we started working on how to manage it while understanding that the root cause is still truly as bad as it is.
it's more like, a lot of psychotherapy is individualistic and focused on getting people functional again, so they can do what is important and meaningful to them.
that might be in alignment with capitalism or social norms, or it might not be.
Therapy can be used for a lot of other things, though, and I find this take can scare a lot of people away from it.
They’re only human so you gotta find someone who’s good and works well for you but they’re great for relationships or trauma or just venting. Mine’s awesome and doesn’t try to tell me that actually working is so great or that my ADHD is problem.
There are so many people who really need it that don’t go because “it doesn’t work anyway”.
Sorry if it seemed like I said that therapy doesn't work. My comment was not meant as such
I was more talking about the function of psychotherapy for mental illnesses under capitalism and it's structural purpose from the perspective of political economy
Unfortunately your initial comment did sound a fair bit like “therapy doesn’t work it just serves capitalism.“ I would be very careful with how you phrase that point.
huh, I assumed that because of me never mentioning the effectives that it would be perceived as neutral since I didn't criticise that aspect, but rather psychotherapy from a meta pov
The opening statement kind of sets the tone but it’s not a huge deal. Just something to consider.
Thank you for your feedback! I still struggle with expressing my thoughts in a way that'd help prevent misunderstandings...
Speaking as a therapist (seriously) the purpose of therapy is whatever the client says it is.
As a therapist looking at some of the new therapy organisations that rhyme with Fetta Yelp, I totally agree with you
According to my wife (also a therapist), the purpose of therapy is to generate enough paperwork to satisfy the whimsy of the government and private insurers.
After that, if she’s actually helped people and gotten paid, it’s a bonus.
I totally agree with your standpoint, but would like to add that in this whole thread no one has mentioned that many people do need help as individuals. While I have made many negative experiences with therapists only trying to get me functional again, analyzing mental health problems away isn't going to work either. I feel like focusing only on the structural problems in this context is ignoring the individuals fighting mental health problems. That's what also frustrated me with the antipsychiatric movement.
We should be able to discuss both the structural and individual levels, because both are essential to actually solving any problems.
Half of my mental health problems would be solved if the state and capitalism didn't require themselves to exist.
Generalized Anxiety Disorder? Majorly lessened if I don't need to worry about food or shelter being stripped away if someone in my family gets sick or we lose income.
ADHD? Managed if ADHD meds weren't locked on the governmental level with cocaine and heroin, and the companies actually made more of the life saving medicine they hold hostage.
Bipolar disorder and Autism have no pills to solve, only mask the problems until they bubble. Ask me what medications I've tried for Bipolar, and I'll tell you why they didn't work.
Ask me what therapy methods I've tried and explained to my therapist network "Therapy helps with some things, but it doesn't solve the major issues of stress, anexity, and depression" before they kicked me off for a profit margin hidden as "This person doesn't want help, because they are too caught up in the lives of themselves and their families."
Yes, there's medications that help people. But after some point, the problem is no longer with that person, its the environment. Sometimes its an abusive family member. Sometimes it a toxic workplace. Most of the time its a death cult called capitalism.
For sure, like I said I agree that it is a structural problem. But we won't abolish capitalism and get rid of its brainwashing anywhere soon. In an utopian future, I can imagine all kinds of better ways how neurodiversity and generally diversity could be better incorporated into society and where we wouldn't need psychiatric institutions etc. But we unfortunately do live under capitalism and people are clearly affected by it. So, for now we certainly need some sort of help for mental health problems. It is up for debate, how this should look and I don't particularly like the psychiatric complex. But people need help nonetheless. A person with mental health problems may try to analyze capitalism as the root cause of their problems, but this won't dismantle capitalism either. At best this a form of self-efficacy, at worst a way to try to avoid overcoming deeper individual struggles.
ETA: and yes, I totally understand where you are coming from with the neurodivergent angle. If you just don't fit in society and the capitalist system, you get sanctioned and bullied for it all the time. This certainly won't go away with therapy apart from maybe making you fit in a bit better at your own cost (or even worse, brainwashing you to repress your own expressions). Same goes for being otherwise divergent, like being trans.
agree with you here too. Individual problems exist and should be taken seriously as well. I took that as a given and thus didn't mention it and wanted to focus more on the side that gets neglected faaaar too often
Socialism will not solve all mental health issues, people will always have personal problems, familiar predispositions etc. etc.
However, a lot of conditions/triggers/main reason would be resolved
As you said, it's both structural/systemic and individual problems. We need both a change in economics and social structures, that empower the working people of this world, bring the economy into their ownership and democratise it and high quality non-dogmatig and unstigmatised free healthcare, social services and so on
I totally get why you highlighted the structural side of it. In discussions of mental health problems it usually gets dismissed or ignored. In capitalist fashion, many of these problems get blamed on the individuals :(
It’s kind of like saying that the individual who isn’t responding well to the abysmal conditions created by capitalism is “broken” and not the system itself. So most of the time you are gonna get a “best I can do is give you some pills that dull all your emotions, good and bad”.
It's me ✨😎🥰
When I constantly stated the same reasons for attending mental healthcare when I got there, after a shake up in the ownership of the network, I was terminated coverage by my place because no one there got it into their head:
Major sources of depression and anxiety aren't fixable with therapy and pills, they are only fixed with a major change in income and political climate. Even if I somehow have a job that pays 8 figures, it doesn't solve the social issues of me and my friends being future victims with no way to stop it.
And then they just went "Well since you're too focused on what you can't change, you can't change at all, buh-bye!"
At some point I just gotta wonder who's actually mentally ill. The people who see the truth and try to change it despite the lack of influence, or the people who ignore it and say everything is okay.
I mean, when I expressed to my last therapist of the network "Hey this place in town, violated the state labor laws and I'm trying to figure out if I can sue them." she just said "But I like the gas in my tank."
I'm sorry you had to go through all that, it sounds horrible and should never have been allowed to happen in that way...
Reading this makes me both melancholy and angry. Capitalism is directly (and indirectly) responsible for many uncountable injuries, injustices and indiscretions...
I struggle with my mental health quite a lot as well (+ neurodivergency. medial asd diagnosis is otw lol), though even in Germany I'm in a privileged positions and just can't seem to get better no natter what I do. The only thing keeping me alive is revolutionary optimism and trying to contribute to the progress of humanity in the best way I am able to
Stay strong ✊ I know this probably doesn't mean much but you have my solidarity and please know that many people are fighting for a just tomorrow. not all is lost
No pills or therapy you can take that solves poverty.
No pills or therapy that solves a political slip into fascism.
No pills or therapy that fix people mistreating you for something you were born with.
No pills or therapy that give you more rights that a government refuses to give.
Only pills and therapy to mask your feelings to be a productive worker drone for the spiral of ants.
Well said.
Therapy can help people develop effective communication skills for self-advocacy, and emotion regulation skills to stay calm under pressure.
Therapy can help people notice things they didn't notice before that might improve their thoughts/outlook, and better understand both themselves and others.
It can help people to clarify and organize their priorities, and improve motivation and increase the rate of progress toward their goals.
A good therapist (usually of the social worker variety, ime) will help you navigate and pursue resources via government, NGOs, and even local mutual aid networks
Therapists act as agents of social control in that we're pushed as the solution to problems which actually have systemic causes, but therapy doesn't have to be inherently oppressive
To help the individual to fit into a society which is ever at war with itself – is this what psychologists and analysts are supposed to do? Is the individual to be healed only in order to kill or be killed? If one is not killed, or driven insane, then must one only fit into the structure of hate, envy, ambition and superstition which can be very scientific?
- Jiddu Krishnamurti
Is society healthy, that an individual should return to it? Has not society itself helped to make the individual unhealthy? Of course, the unhealthy must be made healthy, that goes without saying; but why should the individual adjust himself to an unhealthy society? If he is healthy, he will not be a part of it. Without first questioning the health of society, what is the good of helping misfits to conform to society?"
- more Krishnamurti
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
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The only dangerous minority is the rich.
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Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
