Zelenskyy joins Canadian Parliament's ovation to 98-year-old veteran who fought with Nazis : worldnews

[-] Nakoichi@hexbear.net 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Didn't just fight with Nazis. He was a member of the Waffen SS.

He literally was a Nazi.

[-] sik0fewl@kbin.social 45 points 1 year ago

Certainly they mean against Nazis.

*reads article*

Oh what the fuck.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Jesus Fuck. I was expecting this was fake, but it's not. Here's the AP article, it's image number 4 in the scroller thingy. Here's that dude's Wikipedia page.

It's one thing when eastern Europe plays it fast and loose with that period of history, but I expect better from my own government.

Edit: It looks like they've already apologised.

[-] Blursty@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 1 year ago

The US never apologised did they?

Remember when they invited Nazis to Capitol Hill?

[-] sik0fewl@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

Those were neo-Nazis, not Nazis.

[-] polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 1 year ago

And you imply there is a stark difference?

[-] sik0fewl@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Not at all. Only that there is a difference and the distinction is noteworthy when talking about actual WW2 Nazis.

[-] ned4cyb@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago

Zelensky had an Azov Brigade member aka Nazi scum to talk through video call in the Greek parliament early in the war, so that people would show compassion to a warrior and provide aid

[-] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 19 points 1 year ago

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[-] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 year ago

Many peoples were forced by circumstances to fight alongside people they didn’t like.

He volunteered to join the SS. Nobody was forced to join the fucking SS. Did you mean to say "really wanted to fight alongside", and what's your evidence for "people they didn't like"?

[-] Tarte@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

SS is not the same as Waffen-SS. The Waffen-SS again had foreign legions. These Waffen-SS foreign legions were volunteers at first, later a mixture of volunteers, voluntolds, conscripts and in the end pressured and/or forced conscripts.

I don’t know about the individual motives of the person in question. But the Waffen-SS foreign legions are too much of a mixed bag to generalize.

In Eastern Europe many joined the Waffen-SS foreign legions to fight against the occupation of their countries by the Soviets. Their values and goals didn’t necessarily align with those of the Nazis, except that they had a common enemy.

Edit: The Waffen-SS was part of the German war machine and they did commit plenty of war crimes. I was commenting to differentiate between two different criminal organizations here (SS/Waffen-SS) and to explain how the recruitment changed as the war went on. It was a mistake on my part to omit this, given the sensibility of the topic. Please do not take my comment as an attempt at whitewashing the numerous crimes of various Waffen-SS units.

[-] iridaniotter@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

My hot take is that if you sell your soul to the Nazis to fight for independence, you should be dealt with like a Nazi.

[-] Tarte@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Not that hot of a take. They committed plenty of war crimes of their own and some were dealt with accordingly after the war. Sadly, not all war criminals were put to trial for various reasons and now it’s oftentimes too late.

[-] gnuhaut@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

Ah you're right, there were also conscripts in some Waffen-SS units. Looks like this guy volunteered though, as it says in the article:

A blog by an association of its veterans, called “Combatant News” in Ukrainian, includes an autobiographical entry by a Yaroslav Hunka that says he volunteered to join the division in 1943 and several photographs of him during the war. The captions say the pictures show Hunka during SS artillery training in Munich in December 1943 and in Neuhammer (now Świętoszów), Poland, the site of Himmler’s visit.

In posts to the blog dated 2011 and 2010, Hunka describes 1941 to 1943 as the happiest years of his life and compares the veterans of his unit, who were scattered across the world, to Jews.

I guess they couldn't confirm that this is definitely that same Yaroslav Hunka, though that would be some coincidence. Not only did he volunteer, he loved it. And what even is that comparison? That doesn't sound like a person who has learned anything.

Their values and goals didn’t necessarily align with those of the Nazis, other than they had a common enemy.

You call it "not necessarily aligned, other than". I call it very much aligned. The difference in opinion can't be that big or important if they're willing to kill and die under Nazi orders.

[-] Tarte@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The difference in opinion can’t be that big or important if they’re willing to kill and die under Nazi orders.

That’s a valid point. They also did commit war crimes, including dozens of massacres. I am certainly not trying to whitewash the Waffen-SS foreign units. They are to blame for what they did, including those of them that were coerced or conscripted.

I was talking from a historical perspective and trying to provide some needed context about those organizations and why it’s incorrect to equate membership in a Waffen-SS foreign legion with membership in the SS. Both organizations are guilty of war crimes and atrocities. With the Waffen-SS it’s less certain if each and every member is guilty and to which degree. I cannot say much about Yaroslav Hunka, whose name I have heard for the first time here. From what is in the article, he sounds guilty as fuck.

I have also updated my above comment to clarify this.

[-] Blursty@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago

why it’s incorrect to equate membership in a Waffen-SS foreign legion with membership in the SS. Both organizations are guilty of war crimes and atrocities.

I'm still not clear on what the significant difference is.

With the Waffen-SS it’s less certain if each and every member is guilty and to which degree.

Couldn't you say this about literally any group of mass murderers? Why does this not apply to the SS?

[-] Gadg8eer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

Oof, yeah. That puts a kink in it.

Tbh, maybe we should just ask "Does (insert ideology here) tell me to kill the preteen (or for recent events, anyone under the age of majority) children of the supposedly evil people?" and if the answer is yes or "not specifically but I have no recourse if they suddenly tell me to kill kids" then (insert ideology here) is evil.

[-] bdonvr@thelemmy.club 10 points 1 year ago

TL;DR - Not all Nazis

In any case they weren't formally accused of war crimes, but that doesn't mean they weren't committing atrocities in Poland

[-] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They spend half of war hunting partisans in Poland, Slovakia and Yugoslavia. They have immense amount of blood of heroes and innocents on their hands.

[-] Blursty@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 year ago

choose between two imperialist powers

Jesus Christ. Learn what imperialism is FFS. I can't keep cringeing on this ignorant shit.

[-] realitista@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So Zelenskyy's crime here is not knowing the identity of every single member of the audience and every word the speaker will say? This sounds a lot like gotcha journalism to me.

Take a look at this video of the happening and tell me how exactly we get to pin the blame on Zelenskyy for this?

[-] Zippy@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Definately unfortunate. Can't even really blame any MPs to speak of. It does reflect on the person or MP that did not vet him properly and put forth for recognition in such a public way

As a side comment, you have to wonder about the soldier himself or his family that would have suggested he be recognized to begin. The government typically does not go looking for these individuals to dish out praise but usually they are made aware of someone thru a close family member or friend. Why would a family or the member himself want to be recognized for their service unless they are still proud of what that meant?

[-] rbesfe@lemmy.ca 12 points 1 year ago

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[-] beef_curds@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Seeing liberals do nazi apologia in comment sections in 2023. This bodes well.

"Well ackshully, the Nazis are very nuanced... [goes into a wehraboo rant about the various nazi divisions]"

Edit: mods cleaned it up. Thanks mods. Still scary that's going on.

[-] blazeknave@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

I'm a Liberal. Fuck Nazis.

[-] beef_curds@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Hell yeah! Thanks!

It's just unnerving to see that even the people who invited him are apologizing and admitting it was a mistake, but online there are liberals running cover for a literal nazi.

These commenters don't have to do that. It's not even their L to take. They aren't the ones who invited him. But yet, here they are so dug in they can't admit a mistake that even those involved are admitting they fucked up.

It just makes me uncomfortable how unmoored some people's ideology is.

[-] blazeknave@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Just saying, they're not "liberals" if they're Nazis. By definition liberals want representation and equity for all. (Even if we shoot ourselves in the foot to get it.)

[-] CollisionResistance@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[+] bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

[deleted]

[-] TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

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