228

Alternatives for each of Proton's tools? (jlai.lu)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by inlandempire@jlai.lu to c/privacy@lemmy.ca

65 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Mostly out of curiosity, but also somewhat related to Proton's recent political involvement, I'm curious about alternatives to using their services, open to suggestions for:

Proton Mail: anything that can support custom domain, email aliases, and email scheduling?
Proton Drive: not the most important, but interested in privacy first, encrypted hosting services
Proton Pass: anything I should take a look at besides Bitwarden and Keepass?
Proton VPN: that one's the hardest, it was really good, I think Mullvlad is the one most often recommended?
Proton Calendar: didn't really care about that one, but it was nice that it connected to Mail

My Unlimited plan renewed in December so I'll probably keep it for a year, it was nice having only one subsctiption to keep in mind, but I'm thinking of exploring other options

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[-] kekmacska@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 hours ago

Tutanota, infomaniak, onion mail, forward email, i2p mail

set up your own hosting solution. it is not hard, i did it too. if you need a preset one, nextcloud, filen, cryptpad, cozy, puter, internxt, cloudreve, denet

not really, Bitwarden and KeepassXC are the most established ones. for the best security and privacy, i recommend (selhosted) Bitwarden, since if your computer with KeepassXC, or even just the drive you installed it on stops working, you lose all your passwords, which really sucks. This is not an issue with Bitwarden, the passwords are stored with zero knowledge encryption, you will have all your passwords until you know the master password, and can log into the same vault from almost any device (windows, mac, linux, android, ios, bsd)

Mullvad, yes. But there are some others like Riseup, Calyx, nym vpn

For calendars, there are a shit ton of them: My favorite is Foossify Calendar, but there are some others like: Tuta calendar, etar, kalendar, calindori

[-] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

I’m probably gonna get yelled at for this, but for my use case it works, since I’m not actually trying to hide from the law, just avoiding being tracked by marketing companies… Icloud+ offers encrypted cloud storage, a proxy IP relay, and more importantly an email service that gives you unlimited aliases.

[-] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 1 points 13 hours ago

Lots of Mullvan ppl in here, I thought Private Internet Access was supposed to be the king? What happened?

I don't use any VPN, FWIW.

[-] Sandbag@lemm.ee 7 points 1 day ago

Why does everyone just say use Mullvad now, I always got taught if they are advertising, you should not use them, has this stance changed?

[-] kekmacska@lemmy.zip 1 points 6 hours ago

they won't advertise much until you download theur browser. that's intrusive af

[-] butter@midwest.social 7 points 17 hours ago

Mullvad still advertises less than the others.

Nord has like the highest advertising budget I've ever seen.

And a lot of the major providers have been caught making fake recommendation websites.

[-] eclipse@lemmy.world 3 points 16 hours ago

Mullvad has amazing privacy credentials that are third party audited.

In terms of anonymity, you can literally send them cash via post to protect your identity.

I recommend them to everyone.

[-] mipadaitu@lemmy.world 12 points 23 hours ago

How would a company (even a good one) let people know they exist without some sort of advertising?

Just start a company and sit there hoping people accidentally find you, then tell their friends?

Advertising has to happen on some level.

[-] Sandbag@lemm.ee 1 points 22 hours ago

Fair enough, that's on me for not thinking it all the way through.

On the flipside why is mullavad as trusted as it is now?

[-] kewjo@lemmy.world 4 points 21 hours ago

good track record, anon accounts+payments, no logs, swedish privacy laws and 3rd party security audits. mullvad was also chosen as the backend of Mozilla's vpn

[-] Sandbag@lemm.ee 1 points 18 hours ago

Hmmm, I guess, besides the the proton ceo's statements, how does that compare to proton VPN?

[-] hellfire103@lemmy.ca 28 points 1 day ago

If you must:

Proton Mail/Calendar ➡️ Posteo, Tutanota, Mailbox.org
Proton Drive ➡️ Tresorit, Nextcloud, Filen, Syncthing, MEGA
Proton Pass ➡️ KeePass
Proton VPN ➡️ Mullvad VPN, IVPN, Windscribe
Proton Wallet ➡️ Cake Wallet, Electrum

Some of these don't have first-party mobile or desktop clients, so here are some apps to use them with:

Posteo & Mailbox.org - Thunderbird (desktop, Android), FairEmail (Android), Evolution (Unix-like), Geary (Unix-like), Claws Mail (desktop), Fossify Calendar + DAVx^5^ (Android)
KeePass: KeePassXC (desktop), KeePassDX (Android), KeePassium (iOS)

[-] eclipse@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago

I wouldn't touch MEGA with a ten foot pole.

I'd also argue BitWarden shits on Keepass for UX.

[-] Swarfega@lemm.ee 1 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Yes. I use KeePass every day but it's not similar to Bitwarden and Proton Pass which are very similar to each other.

I will ask, although this is a question for everyone I suppose. Why not use MEGA if your also using Cryptomator?

[-] PirateFrog@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

One really nice advantage for Posteo is even if you stop paying, they'll never delete your account unless you specifically delete it yourself(preventing address recycling, unlike mailbox.org) and you can still access your account and recieve emails, you just can't send any until you pay again. They won't even delete it from inactivity.

That's a rather unique feature in the email world now.

[-] biofaust@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Seconding Tutanota. Started using it this week and it is so...simple! There are 2 apps on Android, but actually only the Tutamail one is needed.

I also use Nextcloud through a private cloud implementation, and it is not refined in the UI, but good enough.

[-] falsemirror@beehaw.org 9 points 1 day ago

I'll just add:

Proton drive => Seafile (selfhosted)
protonpass => bitwarden

[-] hellfire103@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

I stopped using Bitwarden. Unless I'm mistaken, they were about to start doing some closed-source stuff.

[-] Tingly3771@beehaw.org 5 points 21 hours ago

That's not exactly what happened, they pushed more of their code into their own library that was not permissively licensed but then they open sourced it so the issue was resolved. https://github.com/bitwarden/clients/issues/11611#issuecomment-2436287977

[-] hellfire103@lemmy.ca 1 points 17 hours ago

Ah, I see.

[-] Imhotep@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

I agree with many recommendations

but as someone who has tried many VPN providers I can say Windscribe is really bad (for servers in the EU at least).
Slow, few servers, unreliable, and blocked on many websites

surprisingly I see it recommended all the time

[-] Apathy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Mullvad VPN

[-] ArchRecord@lemm.ee 37 points 1 day ago

For Mail, I'd recommend Tuta (which comes with 15-30 aliases depending on the plan) and a third-party aliasing service like Addy if you need more than that. If you want a different aliasing service and are searching around, and trying to avoid giving money to Proton, avoid SimpleLogin, since they are owned by Proton. I don't believe Tuta has email scheduling, though.
For Drive, either use Tresorit, or use Cryptomator if you're okay with paying for OneDrive/Dropbox/Google Drive. (Cryptomator encrypts uploaded files & names so the cloud provider itself can't view the contents)
For Pass, I personally would recommend Bitwarden or Keepass simply depending on whichever one you prefer more. Both are good options.
For VPN, definitely use Mullvad. Simple, unchanging monthly price, you can pay via numerous different ways if you want to keep your identity more private from them (e.g. paying with cash by mail, XMR, etc) and you'll get an account number rather than needing to actually give them any information like an email to create an account. Do be aware it has much less locations than Proton, and most other VPN providers, although it's still quite fast and usable for most cases.
For Calendar, Tuta also has a calendar feature built-in.

I'd highly recommend checking out Privacy Guides by the way, since they tend to have good lists of alternatives for any other services you may want to switch from also.

load more comments (1 replies)

[-] LimpRimble@lemmy.ca 30 points 1 day ago

related to Proton’s recent political involvement

You should probably check the political leanings of the directors of each of the alternatives you are considering as well.

[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago

Yeah, don't just drop whoever opens their mouth to speak..

[-] groet@infosec.pub 12 points 1 day ago

There is absolutely a point to shaming and boycotting everyone who acts negatively in public. Of course beeing a secret scumbag is also bad but it doesn't promote scumbaggery to other. A quiet ass does less damage than a loud one.

[-] Rogue@feddit.uk 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The Proton CEO explicitly used Proton's official accounts and declared them as the company's official stance.

I don't mind people having political views I disagree with. The lines were crossed when his absurd personal views were published :

using company accounts
as official statements

edit: I was asked to provide sources so please find them here: https://feddit.uk/post/23386970/14888441

[-] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

May I trouble you to kindly provide sources for your statements? Your use of plurals indicates that there's more than one tweet, and I am fascinated to learn more.

[-] Rogue@feddit.uk 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

That's such a strange way to phrase it but I'm going to opt to believe you're human and asking in good faith.

This is what the CEO posting as u/Proton_Team stated in a response on r/ProtonMail:

Here is our official response, also available on the Mastodon post in the screenshot:

Corporate capture of Dems is real. In 2022, we campaigned extensively in the US for anti-trust legislation.

Two bills were ready, with bipartisan support. Chuck Schumer (who coincidently has two daughters working as big tech lobbyists) refused to bring the bills for a vote.

At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance.

By working on the front lines of many policy issues, we have seen the shift between Dems and Republicans over the past decade first hand.

Dems had a choice between the progressive wing (Bernie Sanders, etc), versus corporate Dems, but in the end money won and constituents lost.

Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.

Source: https://archive.ph/quYyb

To call out the import bits:

He refers to it as the "official response"
Indicates that JD Vance is on their side just because he attended an event that other invited senators didn't
Rattles on about "corporate Dems" with incredible bias
States "Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses" which is immediately refuted.

That was posted in ther/ProtonMail sub where the majority of the event took place: https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/so_that_happened/m7ahrlm/

However be aware that the CEO posting as u/Proton_Team kept editing his comments so I wouldn't trust the current state of it. Plus the proton team/subreddit mods deleted a ton of discussion they didn't like. Therefore this archive link captured the day after might show more but not all: https://web.archive.org/web/20250116060727/https://old.reddit.com/r/ProtonMail/comments/1i1zjgn/so_that_happened/m7ahrlm/

Some statements were made on Mastodon but these are subsequently deleted, but they're capture by an archive link: https://web.archive.org/web/20250115165213/https://mastodon.social/@protonprivacy/113833073219145503

I learned about it from an r/privacy thread but true to their reputation the mods there also went on a deletion spree and removed the entire post: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1i210jg/protonmail_supporting_the_party_that_killed/

This archive link might show more but I've not checked: https://web.archive.org/web/20250115193443/https://old.reddit.com/r/privacy/comments/1i210jg/protonmail_supporting_the_party_that_killed/

There's also this lemmy discussion from the day after but by that point the Proton team had fully kicked in their censorship so I don't know how much people were aware of (apologies I don't know how to make a generic lemmy link) https://feddit.uk/post/22741653

[-] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 3 points 23 hours ago

I know its a strange way to phrase the request, but I wanted to make it explicit that it wasn't an attack but a good faith request, as you correctly and kindly assumed.

Online discourse is a minefield these days, it's nice when someone notices the effort you put in to not start a fight!

This is interesting stuff. When I get back to my computer I will do more research; I believe there are sites that show removed/revised reddit posts

[-] inlandempire@jlai.lu 6 points 1 day ago

I will, but that's not the most important point of this post

[-] RandomPancake@lemmy.world 30 points 1 day ago

Tuta is an excellent alternative.

Fastmail is what I use for my day to day mail. If you're concerned about it being subject to Australian privacy laws, check out Startmail.

Mailbox.org is very good but some may find it overly complex.

[-] muix@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 day ago

Migadu is also a very good option, have been using it for the past 2 years after leaving Proton. Very cheap compared to other plans.

https://migadu.com/freedom/

[-] NanoooK@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

I didn't know about them. Their about us page is interesting. If I understand correctly you must provide your own domain, is that correct?

Edit: yes, no other choice

[-] inlandempire@jlai.lu 5 points 1 day ago

I was already considering tuta as my "main" email for degoogling purposes, I'll consider their options for the paid plan, it looks like the strongest competitor to Proton

[-] something_random_tho@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

Mullvad is great. Also for drive, if you just need e2ee photo storage, check out ente.

load more comments (4 replies)

[-] yuki@programming.dev 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Mail and calendar: i think mailbox and posteo should work well, they both support IMAP for mail and CalDAV for calendar, just get a nice client(surprisingly not many for calendar standard protocol. thunderbird on desktop and etar/fossify calendar on android. stock one on ios)

VPN: MullVAD is the best

Drive: Check filen, it's cheaper and better, and has powerful CLI tools

Pass: Maybe unofficial self hosted version of bitwarden. It's called vaultwarden, and don't be afraid of selfhost, basically all you need to do is docker compose.

[-] ctag@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 day ago

Fastmail.com has been great here.

[-] noxypaws@pawb.social 5 points 1 day ago

Mail and calendar: Tuta seems the only alternative for mail and calendar if you want custom domain support and encryption by default that Tuta (probably) can't access even if legally compelled to. Doesn't have a desktop bridge like Proton does, rather it has a full Linux app for both email and calendar. Which will be a pro for some people and a con for others. And I'm struggling to run it on my nixOS system, for the three people on earth that would matter for.
Drive: I have a Synology NAS which handles this need very well for me, especially with my own managed wireguard VPN for access away from home
Pass: Bitwarden
VPN: Mullvad

[-] ColdWater@lemmy.ca 0 points 22 hours ago

Lucky me I didn't use any of their services, good luck to you for finding alternatives tho

load more comments

this post was submitted on 29 Jan 2025

228 points (94.5% liked)

privacy

3175 readers

143 users here now

Big tech and governments are monitoring and recording your eating activities. c/Privacy provides tips and tricks to protect your privacy against global surveillance.

Partners:

community.nicfab.it/c/privacy

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

QuentinCallaghan@sopuli.xyz

Kokomheart@lemmy.ca

altair222@beehaw.org