AI garbage
AI garbage, China
This but unironically
nah, they should be fundamentally different, not trying to replicate the west but better
China is focusing most of its AI on other things. China is already starting to experiment with dark factories, which are fully autonomous factories with (almost) no human supervision. Chinese scientists completely dominate AI academic papers. There's much more to AI than some shitty chatbot. China pretty much already surpassed the US on application of AI that actually matter, and DeepSeek is just China dabbing on the West and going, "we can also design a better chatbot too."
A lot of it boils down to the fact that the US has been so thoroughly de-industrialized that much of AI's actual application, which is streamlining industrial processes, has no real use case in a "post"-industrial society, so AI within the US just means a shitty drawing and spaghetti code generator. AI is largely a toy and a curiosity on a consumer level, but it's very different within an industrial context. Part of the reason why AI had such large energy consumption was because it was being put to use for something that should never be used by AI, akin to shoving a circular peg in a square hole. AI is terrible for creations that require human creativity and ingenuity like art, but it's perfect for decreasing industrial inefficiencies by 2.5% or increasing industrial outputs by 32%. I wouldn't use AI to code or edit a movie, but I would use AI to optimize printing paper distribution so that my fleet of 200+ printers will never run out of printing paper.
This is just a test run. They're trying out DeepSeek to streamline some boring bureaucratic processes in Shenzhen, the Silicon Valley of China and Guangzhou, a city that exists within the same metropolitan area as Shenzhen. I mean, if there's any place to try out some fancy technological gizmo, it would be Shenzhen.
I see very little problem with AI once its removed from capitalist context.
I'm not against ~~Statistics 3~~ "machine learning", I'm against people trusting in a chatbot
I'd argue that misunderstanding of the capabilities of machine learning systems stems directly from the hype created by capitalists to promote them.
come fuckin on dude come on dont be crackers
they'd be crackers if they started throwing money at a private company like openai to operate a closed source model and charge subscriptions for it
LLMs have tons of useful and harmful applications. Hard to have an opinion on this without knowing the specifics
this isn't a government AI management system, this is just China's version of ChatGPT. This is bullshit, you can't govern on a god damn chatbot.
Don't be a Luddite, LLMs are incredibly useful for certain tasks. Don't let capitalist stupidity and greed influence your opinions
its not useful for anything a human can do with actual oversight. it can be used as a minor minor search tool but i disparage it being used for active governance.
The article mentioned helping with reading public comments/feedback
Let's say there are 10k comments, but in reality, there are only 100 unique problems/suggestions from the citizens due to duplicated feedback
It's unrealistic for them to read all of them, so let's assume a system they may currently use is randomly pick 200 comments to read to get a general sense of the public
However, let's say a few of those 100 unique issues in the 10k comments are very important, but only have a small number of submissions due to whatever reason, and most of the other issues of the 100 are highly duplicated
So out of the 200 randomly picked comments, they miss some important but very infrequently submitted feedback
Now dump all that 10k into an LLM to categorize the duplicated submissions into a summary/a few comments. Count the number of comments in each compressed issue with the LLM. They still manually read 200 randomly picked comments and do the same categorization but manually to ensure that the LLM summarization doesn't misinterpret the comments and it does the bucketing of issues correctly (check that the distribution of problems in the 200 is roughly the same as the one from the LLM). This is good enough to validate the LLM output
Now after the bucketing of duplicated comments, it's possible for them to read all 100 unique comments with human eyes, since the leftover comments that couldn't be compressed due to low number of duplications can all be read in their original form since they aren't wasting time on the highly duplicated comments
filtering things through a chatbot is not at all helpful, we've seen how useless they are at identifying actual problems and issues, and it risks actually ignoring the unique concerns of the common people. It just receives feedback and spits it out in a slightly reliable manner. Although it could be just used for those things, and while it could be useful in some cases, erasing autonomous elements within a democratic system is not indicative toward a better society. Advocating for using a capitalist LLM to start replacing government functions is a catering to neoliberal and liberal elements.
They should be focusing more on cracking down on capitalist elements instead of seeing the US implementing bullshit and then say "we need to do that oh my goodness". There's definitely a liberal ideological bloc in china that absolutely worships the USA, and is deeply seated within the communist party. They should be focusing on implementing a democratically planned economy with computerized elements to solve the economic calculation problem.
and it risks actually ignoring the unique concerns of the common people
That's why there's still the manual validation step with the randomly sampled set
also, they are doing multiple things at once. not everybody is going to only focus on anti corruption
That's why there's still the manual validation step with the randomly sampled set
Thats of course with the first implementation, but no matter it will increase its role within the government and start 'streamlining' relying on well known unreliable chat LLMs.
also, they are doing multiple things at once. not everybody is going to only focus on anti corruption
im not saying anti-corruption, im saying restoring a socialist economy and socialist government.
but no matter it will increase its role within the government and start 'streamlining' relying on well known unreliable chat LLMs.
That's a big assumption that the government officials will necessarily become morons due to their decision to use Deep seek in ways that we don't even know
I'm a lud, fuck LLMs
I don't think they're governing with it, it sounds like they're using agents to automate and handle small tasks. They're essentially fancy macros that you can interface with using natural language.
Exactly, a lot of people have a knee jerk reaction when seeing LLMs mentioned, but the real question is the context this tech is used in. The incentives for government use would be completely different from those in private companies trying to monetize it. For example, it's easy to imagine how this could make a lot of government services a lot more accessible. It could provide a more natural interface for finding stuff people need online for example, help fill out forms, etc.
Like everything else, the answer is limits
Let’s see if China plays this right
Can China start using a much cheaper, open source LLM to legitimately improve all aspects of their life and build towards socialism at a faster pace?
I know there is a lot of hate for LLMs coming out of capitalist nations, for a lot of good reasons, but I'm happy to see a counter experiment being run in China of how these things can be utilized positively when profit motive is largely taken out of the equation.
these are capitalist elements within china, praising capitalism but in china is not what we as communists shouldn't be doing. Increase socialist reforms, increase socialist economy, and not embracing west tailism
These are programs done by local governments, there's no capitalism happening here. Nobody is embracing capitalism here.
Capitalism is when you use LLMs
🤣
Is using any technology that is invented first in the west considered tailism, or only LLMs?
I don't understand how it is praising capitalism to see use in technology created out of a capitalist mode of production.
these are capitalist elements within china
Can you explain what you mean by this?
I think so, these being government initiatives means that the incentives are fundamentally different from ones we see when this tech is driven by vulture capital. I find a lot of the hate for LLMs stems from the capitalist context and people seem unable to separate these things.
I think people here haven't been keeping up with how much progress and how thoroughly AI has already been integrated within Chinese society: https://xcancel.com/wrenevans217208/status/1846550898635637024
Some more points to add:
China is completely dominant in AI research. There is the joke that AI research papers are either written by scientists where half the scientists are Chinese or written by scientists where all the scientists are Chinese. And I can assure you, the best and brightest Chinese minds aren't figuring out ways to develop a better chatbot.
China has already pushed out self-driving cars and busses in tier 1 cities. Self-driving busses have been a thing in Guangzhou for at least half a decade at this point. I've also seen videos of people boarding self-driving taxis, but they largely didn't like it lol.
China is beginning to experiment with dark factories. There was that hype clip by Xiaomi a while back about how they're going to open a dark factory for their smartphones. Even if you're skeptical about how this particular factory would pan out, I've seen another Chinese company trying to do the same except they're trying to open a mine that's completely run by robots. China is obviously interested in dark factories and are going to put their best minds to crack this nut.
AI development and integration within Chinese society is one of the reasons why China is trying so hard to develop a viable fusion reactor. AI means massive energy consumption, and the ultimate plan is for that massive energy consumption to be fulfilled by nuclear fusion. The only real argument against AI goes out the window if Chinese nuclear scientists can find the holy grail.
Exactly, people keep thinking AI is basically just hallucinating chat bots because that's largely what we see in the west. Meanwhile in China, this tech is actually being applied productively because there's actual planning being done at state level to nudge its development towards socially useful directions.
The Great Treat Forward
Are these models able to run locally with better efficiency than the server farms?
Depends on the size. I'm running a distilled version locally and it's pretty snappy, but output isn't quite as good as the full sized on. My expectation is that we'll see a lot more optimization happening in the coming years. It's also worth noting that the incentive for the government would be to reduce cost which creates further incentive to make this stuff more efficient.
On the road to fully automated luxury gay space communism.
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