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submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net to c/privacy@lemmy.ml

I keep thinking about this.

  1. Most retro handhelds do not have cellular network chips, gps, or even built it microphones or cameras in many cases. But many do still support wifi and Bluetooth.

  2. The vast majority of them do support either Linux, Android, or both. This is the area that needs the most work, since the Linux distros on these devices are so stripped down that they can't do much more than run emulators and a few bespoke game engine compilations. And for the Android-supporting devices, there would be a need to build more privacy-respecting roms. But that's the thing - many of these devices openly support that, it's just not something the communities have gotten around to creating.

  3. While this would become less useful with popularity, this kind of approach would be a form of steganography. If you're in an extreme situation where you or your belongings are being searched, how many people are going to suspect that the little Retroid Pocket gaming handheld is even something you can or might be storing your private info on?

Edit: Judging by the comments so far, I underestimated how unknown these devices must be still. While they do technically include handhelds like the PSP/Vita, 3/DS, etc; these days when people use the term "retro handheld" they're usually referring to a veritable cornucopia of gaming devices that come in a wide variety of hardware configurations and form factors. They are most often ARM-based devices, though there are even a couple that are pocketable fpga devices. Some of them are even small enough to be keychains.

Right now some of the most popular companies in this category include Retroid, Anbernic, Ayn, and Ayaneo. There is also a large selection of 3rd party custom firmwares out for many of these devices. But again, most of these are just very stripped down versions of Linux. Instead of full fledged desktop environments, they normally have media center style frontends like Emulation Station. And as far as I know, none of them have bothered to port any of the conventional Linux package managers.

As far as I understand, there is no technical reason why PostmarketOS, Mobian, or LineageOS for MicroG couldn't be ported to at least some of these devices, as some examples.

Hopefully that is enough resources for anyone to start to get up to speed. It should be apparent that full, unbroken system experiences with up-to-date software is possible on at least some of these devices, even including apps like Signal.

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[-] lnxtx@feddit.nl 19 points 2 days ago

The main issues I can see:

  • lack of secure instant communication, like Signal
  • missing secure wi-fi protocols
  • no TLS >= 1.0 support
  • expired root certificates
  • backdoors, established digital forensic tools
  • credentials stored in RAM

If somehow you can install an SSH v2 client, with 2FA login - will be somehow useful.

My fast research, a PSP with custom firmware, and PSPSSH SSH client (not sure if it supports current ciphers).

[-] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 5 points 2 days ago

I've updated the post in response to yours and other comments. No need to rely on poor outdated solutions. Some of these devices, like the Retroid Pocket 5, almost are Android phones just with built in gaming inputs and no cellular chip. I can probably install Signal on it right now if I wanted to, though as it currently is, I would not trust Retroid as a company enough to rely on their firmware.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 10 points 2 days ago

Define "retro", because no Game Boy supports Android or Linux that I know of. Nor even a DS.

Most retro handhelds do not have cellular network chips, gps, or even built it microphones or cameras

All I'm hearing here is that they're not useful for much. Not even audio calls if there's no microphone. I'm not sure what you'd use them for.

[-] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 days ago

A microphone can easily be added with headphones or earbuds. I've updated the post to include relevant info.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago

Okay, those devices are an entirely different category. If your goal is a full desktop environment, though, that's completely the wrong thing to look at. They don't have desktop input controls. The most widely supported device would probably be a Steam Deck or similar.

But, if your threat model is "being searched', it depends on who is doing the searching. NSA? They're going to pick you apart lest they have another Snowden. Immigration/customs? They're going to ask you to turn it on and show it's just a game console.

[-] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 days ago

An increasing number of these devices have touchscreens, so Phosh could work quite well. And for me it's more about how these devices are leaving a lot of potential functionality off the table. When hundreds of thousands or more people are all using something, you can never predict all the different use-cases they're going to have. So it's strange to me that these frontend developers are putting so much effort into turning them into dumb single use appliances, when the entire world of Linux software can just as easily be made available.

But yeah I was thinking about a hypothetical search scenario. I don't see it being useful for anything more than average local-level forces. Some of them support dual-booting, so those stripped down emulation frontends could come in handy in that case. Have one distro, ideally complete with full disk encryption. Then have another that actually is for the games. If somebody turns the display on and sees it demand a password, they'll demand further investigation. So they would need to be met with an open menu with an obvious, full list of games ready to play, with no indications there is anything else to search into.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 1 points 2 days ago

A full desktop with touchscreen costs money for extra hardware, and developer salary to port and test the software. Selling more specialized devices means you can use less powerful hardware, an embedded(ish) OS like Android, and only run your one program. That's why the thing you're looking for doesn't exist, it just doesn't make sense as a product outside your one very specific use case.

[-] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 days ago

No, that's really not how this ecosystem works. I'll give an example based on the Retroid Pocket 5, just because that's what I own and am familiar with. The company ships it with Android 13 by default. So this already has a full desktop environment, full suite of available app stores - everything that any other Android device can do, plus built in game input. No extra hardware needed. I can outright install Signal, Briar, Matrix, any of those kinds of things on it right now. Retroid never did any testing or development for that use case, it's just what happens when a device has a full, open Android experience from all of the development that has gone into Android and apps over the years.

However, they also chose to use a chipset that has support for Linux as well. At least two projects have already ported their variants of Linux to the RP5 - Rocknix and Batocera. While it's true that porting, testing, fixing, and maintaining operating systems has a labor cost, you're trying to apply standard business logic to something that doesn't operate that way. Batocera accepts donations, and Rocknix doesn't even accept any financial compensation. These are volunteer projects, labors of love. They are not subject to capitalistic incentives, and nor is it entirely accurate to call open-source projects like these "products." The processes involved are more organic, more democratized. It's a commons, and anyone can get involved.

The reasons they're designed the way they are is because that's what fits their motivations and project goals. It's the appliance model - they want the device to do one thing, and do it well - to play games, particularly retro games. So they put in only enough software to make that happen, and then try to make it as much of a polished experience as possible.

I am only trying to point out that the only thing getting in the way of more general purpose systems being available to these devices pretty much comes down to whether more people feel like trying to compile them.

[-] bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net 3 points 2 days ago

I think OP is referencing new "retro" handhelds that run Android (although I bet a lot run KitKat or something insane, so no modern encryption/https)

[-] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 days ago

The Retroid Pocket 5 runs Android 13 and I could probably install Signal (or any other Android e2e messaging apps) on it right now. There are also other devices with similar specs and software.

[-] bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net 2 points 2 days ago

Oh, there are sooo many options now, I'm sure many gaming handhelds are 100% up to date Pixel-level. I was just saying as per existing inventory in the world, if you just pick up something random... it gonna have KitKat potentially...

[-] solrize@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

KitKat (Android 4), If only. I still have an Archos 43 media player that runs Android 2.3.

[-] bad_news@lemmy.billiam.net 2 points 2 days ago
[-] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 6 points 2 days ago

My laptop only has wifi and Bluetooth with no microphone or camera. What exactly are you referring to?

[-] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 3 points 2 days ago

I've updated the post with relevant links and info. My first thought here is that your laptop is not pocketable, and if you were ever in a search and seizure situation, your laptop would be more likely to be one of the first things confiscated.

My first thoughts were the DS's pictochat or maybe PSP. No clue about how to use them like this, I doubt "modern" tools exist (yet). But it's creative, interesting, and I like the needless extra steps...so I support it

[-] AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 days ago

While a person probably could spin up a very hacky solution on a DS or PSP, there's really no need to do anything so painful. I've updated the post to go a bit more into detail about this.

this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2025
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