10
„It’s not holocaust when brown people are dying”
~white people
What the actual fuck is going on with humanity?
People who want extreme 'order' are really good at organizing and fund raising, and breaking the law and daring the rest of us to do something about it. People who like making sure everyone has rights and those rights are protected aren't.
I am not even sure why as a trans person one wants to support an islamic-extremist and authoritarian organization like Hamas. Honestly, I dont get it.
I mean yeah I dont want to make a case of supporting the other side either. But just think would rather wants you dead, Israel, or Hamas? I think I pretty much know the answer.
Yes, you know an answer to irrelevant question. Good job
Is it irrelevant though?
Lets take it to an extreme: Imagine in Gaza there would be a Nazi regime. Nazis who hate trans people and want them dead. Nazis living there with their families, innocent children etc.
I Understand that it would be worthwhile stopping war actions on all those innocent souls, but would I actively advocate for the Nazi party ruling this imaginary Gaza strip? Certainly not.
Hence, get your act together. Support an end of the war on Gaza, support innocent people. Dont support Hamas!
Supporting innocent people would be putting pressure on Izrael to stop killing medics. At the moment it's Nazis against Nazis. It's not black and white it's black and a darker shade of black. If your opponent starts doing war crimes you don't kill members of red cross.
It really blows my mind. Masha Gessen, Nancy Fraser, Yuval Abraham, Omri Boehm, and also others not mentioned in the article. Who the fuck gave Germany the right to decide who is a good pro-Israel Jew and who is a bad anti-Israel Jew? Germany of all countries, being in the business of labelling Jewish people as acceptable and unacceptable. The fucking nerve on these people.
I'm EU citizen, I go into Germany if I so please. I'll do it and I'll do it again.
How can Germany "deport" an EU citizen? Is there any way for them to block an EU citizen from coming back into Germany?
Here we go again, only the US is joining them this time. 🙄
Germany… forever pro-genocide cvnts
Name a more dynamic duo: German 🤝 being on the wrong side of history
Bro defends a terrorist organisation that wants to eradicate an entire religion and thinks he's on the right side.
I fucking can't lmao.
By the IDF's own numbers, the IDF has a worse civilian collateral damage rate than Hamas.
Germans never stopped being nazis. They just laid low until they found a new acceptable target.
Much of the mentality that enabled nazi Germany stayed. I'm half romanian, half german. I'm also part jewish. My ancestors died in the Holocaust. The German love for law and order scares me. They're overly obedient. Rarely walk out of line on serious matters. Mark my words, but someday the AfD will come to power, and they'll make use of all the tools the liberals implemented for them (suppressing protests, deporting people, cutting funding, and so on) and no one will bat an eye. Because a law is a law and therefore it is to be followed. Hopefully I'll manage to be far away by that time.
What mentality do you mean? The obedience? I feel like it’s more nuanced than that. Yes, following the rules everyone agreed on is lived in a rather inflexible way. If you think about it though, that’s democracy. It’s a commitment to the compromise. The unwritten contract between the majority and the minority. We recognize that the moment you start thinking "I don’t like this law, so I won’t follow it", democracy falls apart. People here want law and order even for laws they disagree with, because collectively that means that laws they agree with will also be followed by everyone.
There are limits though. While I agree that it’s scary to see the AFD become more and more popular, I disagree with your prediction. The idea of "never again" regarding the Holocaust guides every single part of public life. There are not many Germans who would say they are proud of their country. Only every two years, when Germany plays soccer in the international leagues, flying a German flag does not feel weird. Shame for your own country. That’s what Germans think everyone expects us to feel.
Strong military? We’re watching you. Your Great-Grandfather did what? Be sorry. Proud of Germany? How dare you.
The very first words of our constitution ("Human dignity is untouchable.") are a testament to the Holocaust. It’s an incredibly well chosen sentence that every single law is measured against. We know the entire world expects us to uphold this principle forever.
I am not arguing against the danger for democracy that the AFD poses. It’s very real. But in Germany we even have a law to actually make parties illegal that are against the constitution, most importantly the first sentence of it.
So, if Germans are obedient to the law, and the most important principle of our law makes anything even close to the Holocaust illegal, isn’t obedience a good thing then? The real question is, would Germans decide to just accept unconstitutional laws, or rather insist on upholding the constitution? I think the huge protests in the past months have made clear that many people are already standing up for the constitution. Not because they just follow rules blindly, but because they actually believe in the principles of compromise, democracy and dignity.
Yes, following the rules everyone agreed on is lived in a rather inflexible way. If you think about it though, that’s democracy.
I would say that's a veneer of paternalism on top of a foundation of democracy.
The people's vote is never precise. It gives broad direction to those who govern. Politicians are trusted representatives of the people to act in their best interest, but they're not told precisely what to legislate on (unless you're Swiss and live in a direct democracy). They can inact things which are inline with the people's wishes, and they can get it wrong.
If the people behave as is the legislators are always right because they were placed there through a democratic process and there is never any push back, then they've surrendered a large part of their agency. If the people just obey rules without question, their government is now their fixed term authority figures. The government knows what is right, and the people should just follow along.
Talk to a Frenchman and he will be very clear that government serves the people. Not the other way around, and that sometimes you have to break the rules to remind those in government who is in charge. Bastille day is celebrated to make sure no one forgets.
I think Germany has the wrong mindset on this point.
Edit: I also think that "Never again" has become "Never again shall we see the Jewish persecuted" rather than "Never again shall we allow a holocaust to befall anyone". If Germany has truly learnt the lesson they should recognise that any country can perform evil. Even those that have been wronged in the past.
Oh I think in Germany it’s actually a huge problem that no one really feels like they are represented by anyone in the government, even the party they voted for. It’s the biggest reason the AFD is so popular: People wanted an alternative to the status quo, no matter what it is. Because they feel like "die da oben" (like "they up there") have always decided against the interests of the average guy. So actually, mistrust in the government is the cause of the AFD, not its solution.
In my comment I was actually not even thinking about the politicians, just the "majority" as in more than 50% of people. Not the current majority in parliament or anything like that.
Germany actually has a pretty big protest culture, at least I see them so regularly that it’s a very normal part of public life.
But many people are either too content with their life to complain or even be interested in something else (you could also call it lazy and ignorant tbh), or they are so disillusioned that they don’t believe they could ever change something. It’s the same in most western countries to be fair.
I absolutely agree with you about what we should do in regards to Israel, and I think most people in Germany actually also do. But what would happen on the international floor if Germany suddenly started saying we should arrest Israel’s top politician, stop supporting their "defense", and openly accuse them of genocide? It’s an honest question: Do you think we could? Without the whole world scolding us to not forget our history? I personally think Germany doesn’t even have the freedom of choice in this topic, no matter what we as a country think is right.
But what would happen on the international floor if Germany suddenly started saying we should arrest Israel’s top politician,
I think telling Netenyahu that he's safe to travel to Germany because they won't enforce the ICJ arrest warrant is a horrendous, terrible piece of international PR. Of course Germany should arrest him if he comes to Germany. He has an arrest warrant outstanding on him to stand trial for war crimes. Since when is Germany a place for people to evade justice.
Germany should be seen to respect the rule of law. Not tell the ICJ it has no jurisdiction and harbour someone wanted on war crime charges. Let the international court take that problem away from them. It's not on Germany to decide. That's the courts job through due process. If he's not guilty, let the court make that decision.
Anything else is German arrogance.
stop supporting their "defense",
They can limit their support to only non-aggressive aspects. Don't supply funds or weapons. Supply medical aid, infrastructure support, etc and do the same for Gaza. Be on the side of the innocents caught up in the violence.
and openly accuse them of genocide?
Friends tell friends when they're in the wrong. Friends tell friends when they're acting irrationally through anger, fear and hatred. This is especially true if that friend has been there themselves as they can offer a perspective others can not.
To own your history is to show you've learnt from it. Germany is acting more like they have a debt to repay, but there is no amount that can be repaid. You can only internalise the facts, learn the lessons and act in a way that shows that.
Again, I agree with everything above, I also think Germany is doing the wrong thing. In your last paragraph you say exactly what was my argument: Germany acts like it has a debt to repay. I can say from the perspective of a German that that is exactly what everyone here feels like is expected of us. Eternal atonement. Repaying what cannot be repaid. This has never changed since Germany lost WWII.
You have to consider that Germanys position regarding international relations is unique. The allied states gave us back our freedom not under the condition of being friends with Israel, but essentially owing a debt. Nobody ever let us forget what would happen if we "got out of line" again.
That is not only true on the level of international politics, but also in everyday life. When you travel to the US, people will straight up ask about the Nazi-Autobahn or whether you are a Nazi yourself. In Poland, people just might be a bit more unfriendly to you because of what your country did to theirs. In many places of the world you can buy "history pieces", from SS emblems to signed copies of "Mein Kampf". The whole world still kind of thinks of the Nazis when they talk about Germany, and if its even just 1% of what they think, it's still there. Like, no offense taken, but I don't know about any other country in this position. Russia, the US, Great Britain, France, even Japan or Italy. I don't think any of these countries' citizens get asked uncomfortable questions about their countries past when on vacation. Their children do not grow up in the knowledge that they will have to bear the sins of their country, and put them on their children too.
So, Germany accepted this role, these expectations, and does its best to keep to that. Nobody here thinks it would be internationally accepted if we "emancipated" ourselves from this duty. I think many Germans want to, at least in my social bubble. But do you think we could, without any repercussions?
I think what we need is absolution, forgiveness, a new beginning with no strings attached. A real, equal friendship between Israel and Germany. Trust. Otherwise we will just stay paralyzed by our infinite moral debt. I don't think this will happen in our lifetimes. Not with the current Israel, the current US, the current Germany.
TL;DR: I wanted to give an perspective on why Germanys position is kind of unique in this world. It is one of the biggest economies, a sovereign state, but still not free in decisions regarding Israel.
I get where you're coming from. It's a hard legacy to inherit, but honestly most European countries have terrible events in their past. Germany's is just the most recent.
It's sad that travelling as a German is so awkward. Americans can be ignorant jerks, so that doesn't surprise me much. Few of them know how mainstream Nazi thinking was there before they entered the war. They treat us British as occupiers that they had to kick out, rather than the ancestral home of their founding fathers. Best to brush them off.
With many other places WW2 kicked off a series of occupations that only finished with the fall of the Soviet Union. It's still raw.
I think what we need is absolution, forgiveness, a new beginning with no strings attached. A real, equal friendship between Israel and Germany. Trust.
There is no absolution. There's just time.
(Germany needs a good therapist)
You're focusing on Israel as being the answer. Israel is not the Jewish diasporas. What Israel wants is not the same thing as what the Jewish people want. What about all the Jews around the world that see Israel killing in their name and are disgusted by it? They then see Germany by Israel's side?
Ukraine, on the other hand...defending a nation against a clear aggressor. A foreign policy slam-dunk, yet it's France and the UK taking the lead.
Be a rock. Be solid. A good world citizen. Be worthy of the world's trust and then you will be trusted.
Germany is always on the wrong side of history.
The good side of history isn't really that of police states built on violence and blood. Germany government is not alone in supporting israel, pretty much every government rooted in authority share the same values.
The article seems to say very little about the 4 people. What it does say is pretty light on facts about what they were involved in. Were they vistors? Students? Do they live in Germany? Do they work there? Have families there? Some factual context would be nice. And how/when were they arrested?
The author of the article links to their own earlier article in the Intercept that goes in detail: https://theintercept.com/2025/03/31/germany-gaza-protesters-deport/
The only event that tied the four cases together was the allegation that the protesters participated in the university occupation, which involved property damage, and alleged obstruction of an arrest — a so-called de-arrest aimed at blocking a fellow protesters’ detention. None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university. Instead, the deportation order cites the suspicion that they took part in a coordinated group action. (The Free University told The Intercept it had no knowledge of the deportation orders.)
Some of the allegations are minor. Two, for example, are accused of calling a police officer “fascist” — insulting an officer, which is a crime. Three are accused of demonstrating with groups chanting slogans like “From the river to the sea, Palestine Will be Free” — which was outlawed last year in Germany — and “free Palestine.” Authorities also claim all four shouted antisemitic or anti-Israel slogans, though none are specified.
Two are accused of grabbing an officers’ or another protesters’ arm in an attempt to stop arrests at the train station sit-in.
O’Brien, one of the Irish citizens, is the only one of the four whose deportation order included a charge – the accusation that he called a police officer a “fascist” – that has been brought before a criminal court in Berlin, where he was acquitted.
All four are accused, without evidence, of supporting Hamas, a group Germany has designated as a terrorist organization.
As I mentioned under your other comment quoting this article:
They only describe what was done at the protests in general. I did not see any mention of the police even accusing them of being directly involved in mayor crimes, let alone proving it.
Yes, it is not ok, to vandalize the university and threaten people with axes. And those who did that should be persecuted for it. But it is not ok to "make an example" of someone who just participated in the same protest.
Thats true
Then take your posts down and stop spreading misinfo.
After Reading additional sources it seems very much certain that they were not just some innocent bystanders:
[…] Zu den vermummten Personen sollen Kasia W. aus Polen, Cooper L. aus den USA, Shane O. und Roberta M. aus Irland gehört haben. Die vier beteiligten sich an mehreren propalästinensischen Aktionen.
[…] The masked individuals are said to have included Kasia W. from Poland, Cooper L. from the USA, Shane O. and Roberta M. from Ireland. The four took part in several pro-Palestinian actions.
„The masked individuals“ refers to those with the axes.
(https://www.zeit.de/campus/2025-04/abschiebung-berlin-propaleastina-protest-usa)
Hence, I kindly decline your request. Obviously, I agree that there should be strong evidence for all of this. Lets see if they have any.
The real umbrella term is tolerance, you embrace it and it covers you, you either fall in line and integrate or you're out.
Nowhere is set in stone that you have a right to bring the shit that made you flee your country into your host country and escape consequence.
Good riddance, globalism is absolute shit.
Where are all the people cheering up for germany government preparing for war?
Because the Russian Federation is a belligerent nation undermining EU institutions^1^, carrying out acts of sabotage on EU soil^2^, threatening nuclear war regularly^3^, threatening to reconquer EU member states^4^, and conducting genocide in Ukraine^5^.
And that is not to mention that actions taken by Kremlin assets in the US and Hungary.
1: https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/27/russia-putin-disinformation-hybrid-warfare-europe/
4: https://www.newsweek.com/russia-zaporozhzhia-nato-invade-balitsky-1832236
What answer are you reply to? If russia is shit and conducting a genocide is it ok to support one yourself and turn fascist?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_
Germany and europe are already armed to compete with russia and spend billions in war already.
this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2025
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