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JWZ weighs in on Signal again
(www.jwz.org)
Man, I haven't seen a goat.se in years
That's probably the only reason I clicked it. Honestly, kinda regret that I did because the author just seems like a dude yelling at the sky because he's wildly critical of the smallest things but doesn't offer up any solutions.
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Not trying to be pedantic, but the original was goatse.cx
Yeah everyone likes to call it "Goat-see" or "Goat-say", but it was originally supposed to be "goat-secx" i.e. "goat sex".
I think part of the confusion may be that when the site was taken down, the mirrors that sprung up were things like goat.se, etc.
I've heard it pronounced "goatsee" and said that myself back when the original site was live. You are 100% right on the intent of the name though.
Is this a random thought or should I not click the link?!?
Edit: oeuf. There it is. Nice.
The fact that there are no interoperable third-party implementations, or even third-party builds/distributions of the Signal app
that's not true, Molly is perfectly fine
~~most~~ some of the stuff on that list isn't even true (at least not anymore) lol
What specifically isn't true?
4/5, and partially 1 bc mobcoin doesn't use pow or pos.
disclaimer: I don't fw signal or cryptocurrency of any kind
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Hard to take them seriously, if they can't even use a search engine to realize most of this is complete bullshit. What is this? A Twitter post?
What is this? A Twitter post?
Just about. JWZ is known for his cynical hot takes on tech in general.
I don't think any of his complaints are invalid, though his conclusions are uncharitable at best. Making a communication tool that's both reasonably secure and sufficiently palatable to people who don't know how to use computers to achieve broad adoption is a hard problem with no perfect solutions. If he has a better idea, well... he's a skilled and somewhat famous programmer; he's better equipped than most to implement it.
There are some fairly good solutions tho. Matrix is still kinda half-baked (specifically thinking about 2.0 and Element X) and Conversations has limited capabilities, but they are fairly easy to use
Edit: Although I would really wish Matrix had a 'normie-mode', with secure and reasonably easy to handle defaults
I use Matrix, and I've moved some conversation with people I met in public rooms there to Signal because it kept failing to transfer keys rendering it unable to decrypt messages. I haven't seen that in a while so maybe it's fixed, but I haven't been using it for one-to-one conversations lately.
Unfortunately, I've found most people have a lot of resistance to adding another messaging app. I don't really understand why that is, but it's true. Asking someone to install a messaging app when I'm their only contact who uses it and they have another way to contact me has a success rate near zero.
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Is there a better alternative? I don't see anything conclusive in the link on that front
I sure don’t know. SimpleX is suggested, among others: https://dessalines.github.io/essays/why_not_signal.html#good-alternatives
Could you explain/elaborate to a know-nothing (me) on the following from your link?:
Caveats of federation: Metadata leaking
When using federation, Matrix’s room states (containing a lot of Metadata) get replicated and stored indefinitely on every homeserver any user connects with or connects to. While this is a feature for enabling distributed chat rooms, it comes at a serious privacy cost.
To avoid this, you can either disable federation, or make sure that your users signed up with no linkable identifiers other than their user names.
The author of that essay (@dessalines@lemmy.ml) is one of the main devs of lemmy, so you’re asking in the right place lmao
Matrix is not really a chat system, but rather a distributed database that pretends to be a chat system. As a result all servers participating in a room get a full copy of the room metadata all the way back to when the room was created, which is a serious privacy issue.
This is not a general problem of federated systems though, and XMPP for example basically only shares the metadata that other participating servers strictly need to function.
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I’ve never looked into how Matrix works at all, so I can’t really speak to that.
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- matrix if you want cloud storage for conversations
- jami or briar if you're okay with p2p
- simplex for the most secure cryptography and "just works" better than p2p
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this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2025
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